[Travel] Why are all these flights being delayed/cancelled ?

[Machiavelli]

Actually no, Visas for airline staff are easy to get at the moment.

Actually yes, airline staff are difficult to hire at present, as are all staff.

 

[um bongo molongo]

Right now? To give themselves breathing space after the other chaos of flight delays and very short term (hours) cancellations.

Underlying reason? The mass redundancies have left some airlines and certain airports (Manchester the persistent, shambolic worst) unable to cope with the 95% increase in passengers. Almost everyone got it wrong about the huge demand. Doomongers and modellers all talked of it taking 5 years.

NOT taking in account the war-chests saved by tens of millions WFH so having lower costs, with two years of being unable to spend on holidays and a social life, or others getting into credit card debt right now refusing to acknowledge the worsening cost of living crisis.

Sauce: common sense and some great analysis/anecdotes on BBCR4 eg You & Yours today.

I can understand why it would take a while to recruit new staff and train them up. I can also understand why it was difficult to plan without knowing when restrictions would be lifted. But 5 years for demand to return? That’s a huge misreading of public nature surely. It was blindly obvious after two years cooped up at home everyone was going to rush abroad at the first opportunity. How do I get a job as one of these modellers?

 

[Weststander]

I can understand why it would take a while to recruit new staff and train them up. I can also understand why it was difficult to plan without knowing when restrictions would be lifted. But 5 years for demand to return? That’s a huge misreading of public nature surely. It was blindly obvious after two years cooped up at home everyone was going to rush abroad at the first opportunity. How do I get a job as one of these modellers?

I remember Gatwick CEO Stuart Wingate, right up until 6 months ago saying just that. People predicting terminals being mothballed for years, Gatwick being a desert from Virgin leaving, some armchair experts predicted BA leaving Gatwick for good.

But I knew a load if folk who love overseas travel, old debts all paid off, new savings, who were chomping at the bit to holiday away from these cloudy shores. R5 and R4 progs in recent weeks have interviewed many who value their 2 weeks in Turkey or Croatia, or US, Far East holidays more than anything. Many have multiple bookings for the year.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Actually yes, airline staff are difficult to hire at present, as are all staff.

Blaming everything on Brexit weakens the case for actual Brexit things.

Airlines are struggling to recruit for lots of reasons discussed, Brexit is not one.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

They sacked all their staff, trying to hire back on worse terms / staff found other careers. Doesn’t help these airlines have been flogging dirt cheap flights filling up schedules knowing they don’t have staff.

Oh and COVID still a factor , huge sickness levels with staff.

I was going to post something very similar - Airports and the service people - baggage handlers, check in desks etc - making people redundant right left and centre with no thought of when they might need people again.

 

[Weststander]

Blaming everything on Brexit weakens the case for actual Brexit things.

Airlines are struggling to recruit for lots of reasons discussed, Brexit is not one.

You have genuine airport/airline knowledge.

Have tour operators, airlines and Gatwick/Heathrow been surprised by the huge resurgence in demand, so soon?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I can understand why it would take a while to recruit new staff and train them up. I can also understand why it was difficult to plan without knowing when restrictions would be lifted. But 5 years for demand to return? That’s a huge misreading of public nature surely. It was blindly obvious after two years cooped up at home everyone was going to rush abroad at the first opportunity. How do I get a job as one of these modellers?

The issue is that the Gov refused to talk to the airlines

Airlines were on track to recruit and train many more new heads till the over reaction to Omicron in Nov/Dec so they cancelled training courses and new hires as the direction of travel at that point was more restrictions (level 2/3 brought back was being called for by some)

The 5 years was based partly on us dipping back into restrictions every time someone presented a scary model.

 

[Weststander]

I was going to post something very similar - Airports and the service people - baggage handlers, check in desks etc - making people redundant right left and centre with no thought of when they might need people again.

When they could’ve furloughed staff on 80% pay, only having to meet employers national insurance obligations.

Over reactions by some in the industry?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

You have genuine airport/airline knowledge.

Have tour operators, airlines and Gatwick/Heathrow been surprised by the huge resurgence in demand, so soon?

Yes and no, the pent up demand was always going to be there, recruitment is an issue- see my post above.

The whole things a mess - Villas in Orlando are a joke, certain areas running out of cars some hotels withdrawing certain services.

Disney have been the worst company to deal with, I feel sorry for people that booked a while ago.

 

[Weststander]

Yes and no, the pent up demand was always going to be there, recruitment is an issue- see my post above.

The whole things a mess - Villas in Orlando are a joke, certain areas running out of cars some hotels withdrawing certain services.

Disney have been the worst company to deal with, I feel sorry for people that booked a while ago.

Your earlier comment about Omicron was/is spot on. Most of continental Europe reacted in exactly the same way eg Macron and a bullied Austria. Driven by media hyperbole and the exaggerating fringe gloomy scientists who’ve since been restored to the no one cares about their musings life in academia (15 minutes of fame has passed).

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Your earlier comment about Omicron was/is spot on. Most of continental Europe reacted in exactly the same way eg Macron and a bullied Austria. Driven by media hyperbole and the exaggerating fringe gloomy scientists who’ve since been restored to the no one cares about their musings life in academia (15 minutes of fame has passed).

To put a number on it - Virgin postponed 500 crew training for 2/3/4 months in Dec.

So worst case you would have had them all trained by April.

Countries got black listed and others added more testing, the airlines did the right thing for them.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

When they could’ve furloughed staff on 80% pay, only having to meet employers national insurance obligations.

Over reactions by some in the industry?

Exactly my thoughts

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I was going to post something very similar - Airports and the service people - baggage handlers, check in desks etc - making people redundant right left and centre with no thought of when they might need people again.

Airlines were losing millions a day in some cases, with absolutely no end in sight

I think I read somewhere it costs about $500 an hour to park a plane, BA have about 220 !!!

Our aviation industry compared to others across the globe got very little support.

 

[Machiavelli]

Yes and no, the pent up demand was always going to be there, recruitment is an issue- see my post above.

The whole things a mess - Villas in Orlando are a joke, certain areas running out of cars some hotels withdrawing certain services.

Disney have been the worst company to deal with, I feel sorry for people that booked a while ago.

Recruitment is an issue, but it's got nothing to do with the one policy that has reduced the recruitment pool?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Recruitment is an issue, but it's got nothing to do with the one policy that has reduced the recruitment pool?

Visas are not an issue for airlines

Easy jet employees people across Europe (Austrian company now?!?)

Other countries are having issues, none of these have Brexit - Emirates/Delta/Air Canada struggling to hire.

 

[clapham_gull]

I think I read somewhere it costs about $500 an hour to park a plane.

I'm sure someone on here knows a good solicitor who can contest that.

 

[Bry Nylon]

True. Although to be fair that’s about the same as the visitors car park at Addenbrookes hospital in Cambridge

 

[The Clamp]

I think it’s down to people being fed up with high pressure jobs for shit wages. There’s an acute shortage of security staff at airports because they are sick of working long shifts that can start at 2am, on their feet all shift with a huge responsibility on their shoulders for £11 an hour. I don’t blame them.

The days of people flogging themselves to death for minimum wage and a contract that offers zero protection to the employee are coming to and end. Why do it when you can get more for working in a cinema or a supermarket?

 

[LamieRobertson]

Spoke to a guy today who reckons he was dead lucky to get a flight back yesterday, as it was touch and go.
Hope it all goes smooth for them.

They’ve had a great time and should be landing back at Gatwick within the hour

 

[OzMike]

I better get some insurance against this sort of thing dusrupting our plans to go to the UK at the end of July.