Sure, but is possession the problem though? If Brighton took the lead in more games, possession would be lower. You could argue that the high possession stats are at least partially a consequence of not scoring a lot rather than the reason its not happening.
[Albion] Whose fault is this whole "not scoring goals" thing?
- Thread starter Bozza
- Start date
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
Sure, but is possession the problem though? If Brighton took the lead in more games, possession would be lower. You could argue that the high possession stats are at least partially a consequence of not scoring a lot rather than the reason its not happening.
Weststander
Well-known member
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think:
Guadiola, Xavi, Arteta and Potter specifically go out to dominate the ball, and that part of the game-plan remains whatever the score mid match. It’s very deliberately part of the strategy and tactics.
Whilst; Nuno, Lage, Mourinho, Moyes, Howe, Simeone, all do not prioritise it. However that metric turns out, it’s just an inconsequential effect of a rather different game-plan.
That’s my layman’s take.
Last edited:
Yeah but maybe this was AFTER a conversation;
Murray - got any jobs?
Brighton - No, Bruno’s our attacking coach obviously because he’s a right back. We have no need for absolutely natural strikers like yourself, thank you.
BBassic
I changed this.
- Jul 28, 2011
- 13,055
I tell you what, Sean Dyche speaks a lot of sense...
The Clarets, who are four points adrift of safety with 10 games remaining, have not scored a single goal in their last four league games – which all ended in defeat – and have managed only six in their last 11, three of them at Brighton. Asked if he could demand any more from his forward players, Dyche said: “Yes – kick it in the net. It’s not rocket science.”
The former defender admitted, however, that the art of scoring is hardest to coach.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...urnley-goal-drought-everton-relegation-battle
Kick ball in goal.
It's hard to do.
Tactical masterclass.
The Clarets, who are four points adrift of safety with 10 games remaining, have not scored a single goal in their last four league games – which all ended in defeat – and have managed only six in their last 11, three of them at Brighton. Asked if he could demand any more from his forward players, Dyche said: “Yes – kick it in the net. It’s not rocket science.”
The former defender admitted, however, that the art of scoring is hardest to coach.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...urnley-goal-drought-everton-relegation-battle
Kick ball in goal.
It's hard to do.
Tactical masterclass.
Quite, someone who swiftly slams/taps/nods or bollock/arse cheek-bounces the ball straight in the back of the net is detrimental to the art of all passing 75 touch fluid 75% possession based performance soccer.
you have to give the ball back to the opposition for a start. We can't have that
Maybe. I got the impression it was his own decision but maybe you are itk.
I'm not buying the "he was a right back so he knows nothing about attacking so it must be his fault" thing. Guardiola was a defensive midfielder, City appears to be doing alright when it comes to goal scoring. Some of the best brain surgeons out there probably got in the job due to education and knowledge rather than thanks to suffering several strokes. Plenty of people who investigate murders never murdered anyone... and so on.
Barham's tash
Well-known member
When I look at our Premier league progression in the 5 seasons, being unusually statistically agnostic about management style ls id describe our evolution as the following:
Season 1:
Happy to be there. Pragmatism over all else. Few shots, even less on target
Season 2:
Squad evolution to a degree but ultimately the same with a smattering more flair. Unable to adapt and often failure to punish poor teams.
Season 3:
Change of tactics, more possession, more shots, some promise but ultimately not enough going forward to consistently trouble teams.
Season 4:
Huge changes to squad and style. Vast improvement on metrics but ultimately failure to convert chances.
Season 5:
Status quo. Improvement in style arguably but still abysmally poor at conversion.
We can all see we have moved in the right direction which IS down to the manager but I’d argue we’re at peak
Operation of his tactics in terms of player engagement and delivering what he wants but the quality of the players to execute his plan is deficient and that has to come down to two factors - the players themselves and the board in not backing the execution.
Ultimately think about the actual Moneyball model (the book or the film will suffice) and note that the Los Angeles A’s inability to win the World Series came down to their owners ultimate reluctance to back the tactics as best they could.
This effectively could be the peak of where we can aspire to be and if you had a similar squad quality and GP at the helm for say another five seasons then there would be variation across those seasons but probably a mean performance level of 12-17th in the league. Some seasons we’d look great and actually score and others we’d flatter to deceive because we don’t score.
Now it all depends whether TB can convince both GP and our better players that this is worth sticking around for OR whether he has another gear or recruitment strategy to exceed this performance level.
Sadly I expect the reality will be a slow dismantling of this team and that GP will go in the summer to a moderately better resourced team, either here or overseas.
Personally that would make me sad but I’d understand why.
Season 1:
Happy to be there. Pragmatism over all else. Few shots, even less on target
Season 2:
Squad evolution to a degree but ultimately the same with a smattering more flair. Unable to adapt and often failure to punish poor teams.
Season 3:
Change of tactics, more possession, more shots, some promise but ultimately not enough going forward to consistently trouble teams.
Season 4:
Huge changes to squad and style. Vast improvement on metrics but ultimately failure to convert chances.
Season 5:
Status quo. Improvement in style arguably but still abysmally poor at conversion.
We can all see we have moved in the right direction which IS down to the manager but I’d argue we’re at peak
Operation of his tactics in terms of player engagement and delivering what he wants but the quality of the players to execute his plan is deficient and that has to come down to two factors - the players themselves and the board in not backing the execution.
Ultimately think about the actual Moneyball model (the book or the film will suffice) and note that the Los Angeles A’s inability to win the World Series came down to their owners ultimate reluctance to back the tactics as best they could.
This effectively could be the peak of where we can aspire to be and if you had a similar squad quality and GP at the helm for say another five seasons then there would be variation across those seasons but probably a mean performance level of 12-17th in the league. Some seasons we’d look great and actually score and others we’d flatter to deceive because we don’t score.
Now it all depends whether TB can convince both GP and our better players that this is worth sticking around for OR whether he has another gear or recruitment strategy to exceed this performance level.
Sadly I expect the reality will be a slow dismantling of this team and that GP will go in the summer to a moderately better resourced team, either here or overseas.
Personally that would make me sad but I’d understand why.
London Irish
Well-known member
Oh come on, yes the amount of scouting and recruitment work does require a small army of people these days to keep up with the demands of all our various levels of teams but the notion that Potter wouldn't have a major say in those small number of transformational big signings to the first team is fanciful.
Potter will stay at Brighton if he wins matches and he may well do that over the next few weeks, not by his internet fandom busily engaging in deflection exercises
Weststander
Well-known member
I think it’s more about the players TB’s not prepared to sign, due to his three line whip on wages etc. Watkins, Toney, Gallagher on loan, Bowen.
They don’t even get to the serious discussion stage, for Potter to give an opinion.
Winstanley’s spreadsheet whittled down by financial constraints set.
Big say... depends on what you call a big say. Do I think he gets to say what positions he would like to strengthen and give his thumb up or down "yes, go for this guy" or "no dont go for that guy"... most likely.
London Irish
Well-known member
Yeh I think that's a fair wording and the likes of Ali J and Locadia not working out for Hughton was costly in the end for his tenure here, the same danger lies in wait for Potter if all the major signings end up with everyone saying the players are not good enough and "we need more signings"
London Irish
Well-known member
Sure but every manager has to roll with budget restraints, that's not new as Gus Poyet may well tell you
herecomesaregular
We're in the pipe, 5 by 5
Weststander
Well-known member
What’s your take on Bloom not signing VVD when Poyet demanded it?
I have my own (nothing surprising) guess.
Reminds me of Bill Shankly's comment to Ian St John - 'If you're not sure what to do with the ball, just pop it in the net and we'll discuss your options afterwards."
But then again, we need forwards that both score and cause trouble up front. Players that unsettle defences. Sam Baldock was never universally liked when here, neither was Ashley Barnes, and they may not have been prolific scorers or have a massive number of assists, but I recall them creating trouble and causing headaches for defences. That's what Murray and Zamora did too, except they put the ball in the net as well.
Yep, but Jose's points per game were lower than Conte's are now and Kane is back to doing more of what he used to do well. He lost it under Moriniho and it disappeared further under Nuno. Coaches do make the difference, I guess.
Yeah if you move the goal posts, coaches can appear to make the difference. Harry Kane was a beast while Mourinho was in charge.. just like now.
Wonder why Manchester City wanted to buy Kane rather than Maupay, Connolly or you if the coach is the difference?