[Albion] Whose fault is this whole "not scoring goals" thing?

[Pondicherry]

I know this is a bit simplistic but bearing in mind that practising and playing football is their full time job and that in theory they will all have spent at least 25000 hours playing football (some considerably more), they should all at a minimum be equally adept with both feet, know what position to get their body into when shooting (to prevent shots over the bar) and have some degree of composure when under pressure.

 

[Swansman]

I don't disagree with that at all. However, I do expect us to score more than two goals at home in three months and a week. That's not too much to ask, is it?

Nope, and I think everyone including TB and GP expects the same.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

We've only scored 26 goals. Thats over 10 goals fewer than our xG stats indicate our chances should have returned. So this indicates our players are at fault, but upon reflection it's not that simple.

Even had we scored every chance our xG predicted, we would have still only scored a paultry 37 goals.

We are 4th highest ranked for possession stats, only Citeh, Liverpool and Chelsea have better. Which reflects well on the manager.

But for a team that dominates possession like we do, we have created an xG roughly 15-20 lower than our possession play deserves. Which means we should have scored closer to 50 goals, based on our possession alone. Thats twice as many goals than we currently have.

We clearly play at a slower tempo than many other teams, which is an indication that the quality of our players is of a lower standard or just less experienced than that of many our rivals. But we are a smaller club and as such we pay alot less than the majority of other premier league clubs, so no real complaints there.

Our players are playing as well as they can. Individually they just lack the quality needed to do better. Thats not their fault.

The manager is getting the maximum he can out of the players at his disposal, give him better quality and he will get better results.

But that isnt the recruitment departments fault. They have bought well enough to keep us up for 5 consecutive seasons. Until now that has been their target. No club gets every transfer right, so very little to fault there.

The chairman has ploughed an absolute fortune of his own cash into the club. I dare anyone to sugest they could have done better with his resources whilst resisting the temptation to put the clubs long-term survival at risk.

Perhaps we just need to accept that we are probably sitting at the level we deserve to be. Despite an awful run of results we are still within reach of a top 10 finish.

 

[zefarelly]

written 1/12/21

BHA are misrepresented in the tabloids.

Style: defensive possession football, selective pressing
Strengths: playing their way out of the press, restricting the opposition creating chances
Weaknesses: finishing off chances, inability to counter attack successfully

A bit more defensive than the pundits mention.

Class players: Dunk
Useful players: Trossard, Veltman, Webster, Bissouma

Formation, very flexible 3-5-1-1 (I can't understand it, but it seems to work, not sure why?)

Addenda: the shooting is not good enough through lack of technique without pace to make up for it with March, Maupay and a few others.

which puts the blame on recruitment as well, pre-Ashworth

apart from getting the class / useful players the wrong way round that is spot on, and remains so.

 

[zefarelly]

I know this is a bit simplistic but bearing in mind that practising and playing football is their full time job and that in theory they will all have spent at least 25000 hours playing football (some considerably more), they should all at a minimum be equally adept with both feet, know what position to get their body into when shooting (to prevent shots over the bar) and have some degree of composure when under pressure.

You wouldn't have thought it was too much to ask @ £30-50k a week.

 

[Seagull27]

Here's the link to Southampton's squad (that we finished ahead of).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–11_Southampton_F.C._season

I'll pick out a few highlights for you. Jose Fonte, Morgan Schniederlin, Adam Lallana, Ricky Lambert, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain. And we beat them over the course of a season from a tiny athletics stadium, inspired by Gus Poyet's coaching and the experience of Kishishev.

Quite Ostersunds like really.

In fairness, the squad we had at the time wasn't too shabby either, we just hadn't paid as much for them. Our front three all went on to be pretty decent PL strikers.

The blame largely falls at the recruitment team for me, over the course of a number of years. We've made a number of good signings in most other areas but in the 11 years since we got promoted to the Championship we've only had 2 strikers* who I would consider to be top class, at their relative level: Ulloa and Murray. And one of those didn't exactly require much scouting or convincing.

*Maybe unfair on Hemed, but I think he was lucky enough to be a fairly decent striker in an exceptional team, rather than an exceptional striker himself

 

[Insel affe]

Our players are playing as well as they can. Individually they just lack the quality needed to do better. That is not their fault.

Not quite sure I go along with this, I feel one or two are in cruise control. As a rule I do agree though.

The manager is getting the maximum he can out of the players at his disposal, give him better quality and he will get better results.

Nail head, 100% still behind Potter and the team.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

At that time using accounts I worked out the League One spend.

From memory we walked the division with the 6th biggest spend. Poyet’s continental style of play right to final whistle wore out and bamboozled everyone, with some great signings by Slade/Poyet.

Stains payroll cost was literally several times ours, Lambert cost £1m I think, they cheated.

Cnt Atkins, with an embarrassingly huge ego, massively underperformed.

I would have written *cough* Adkins *cough* if it weren't for the fact I know how much of a piss-taker you are

 

[Hamilton]

I think Mourinho showed how a coach can affect the performance of a player. He managed to turn Kane into an anonymous actor whilst in charge. Now Kane is with a coach who knows how to play him, he’s back to world class again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sydney]

Spot on. A great example of good coach's team outperforming bad coach's.

it has been said elsewhere , coach verses manager , as in a nurturing , caring soul who will help young players into the fold and try to get them assimilated into the team and playing how he wants as opposed to a leary northern git who will rip your coight out until he gets what he wants out of ya....that is the difference between a coach and a manager , a coach looks after what happens on the pitch , a manager looks after that plus the resultant points tally.

 

[Swansman]

I think Mourinho showed how a coach can affect the performance of a player. He managed to turn Kane into an anonymous actor whilst in charge. Now Kane is with a coach who knows how to play him, he’s back to world class again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure if Kane who scored 45 goals and made 18 assists in 62 games with Mourinho in charge (15 goals and 6 assists in 28 under Conte) is the best example but yeah I agree sometimes there are extremes, like Jose. Similar to how I dont really care who my neighbours is but if Fred West would move in it would probably affect me.

 

[Weststander]

We've only scored 26 goals. Thats over 10 goals fewer than our xG stats indicate our chances should have returned. So this indicates our players are at fault, but upon reflection it's not that simple.

Even had we scored every chance our xG predicted, we would have still only scored a paultry 37 goals.

We are 4th highest ranked for possession stats, only Citeh, Liverpool and Chelsea have better. Which reflects well on the manager.

But for a team that dominates possession like we do, we have created an xG roughly 15-20 lower than our possession play deserves. Which means we should have scored closer to 50 goals, based on our possession alone. Thats twice as many goals than we currently have.

We clearly play at a slower tempo than many other teams, which is an indication that the quality of our players is of a lower standard or just less experienced than that of many our rivals. But we are a smaller club and as such we pay alot less than the majority of other premier league clubs, so no real complaints there.

Our players are playing as well as they can. Individually they just lack the quality needed to do better. Thats not their fault.

The manager is getting the maximum he can out of the players at his disposal, give him better quality and he will get better results.

But that isnt the recruitment departments fault. They have bought well enough to keep us up for 5 consecutive seasons. Until now that has been their target. No club gets every transfer right, so very little to fault there.

The chairman has ploughed an absolute fortune of his own cash into the club. I dare anyone to sugest they could have done better with his resources whilst resisting the temptation to put the clubs long-term survival at risk.

Perhaps we just need to accept that we are probably sitting at the level we deserve to be. Despite an awful run of results we are still within reach of a top 10 finish.

Not just an Albion thing, but I’ve genuinely never cared one jot about possession numbers.

Nor do 3/4 of EPL managers. Their teams bide their time without the ball, ready to spring traps to mug their passing team opponents.

Imho it only matters at the very highest level with brilliant game-changers. Guardiola’s Barca craved the ball to wear out the opposition and for Iniesta/Messi/Alves to attack.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Not just an Albion thing, but I’ve genuinely never cared one jot about possession numbers.

Nor do 3/4 of EPL managers. Their teams bide their time without the ball, ready to spring traps to mug their passing team opponents.

Imho it only matters at the very highest level with brilliant game-changers. Guardiola’s Barca craved the ball to wear out the opposition and for Iniesta/Messi/Alves to attack.

Possession stats are like xG stats, they do not guarantee success, but statistically you're far more likely to rank higher in the league if you rank higher in both possession and xG.

We've currently nailed half of that equation.

 

[Mellotron]

Other - the coaching.

It’s quite incredible that even after he’s retired from playing we’re STILL finding ways to undervalue Glenn Murray.

I love Bruno and want him in the club in some capacity but for goodness sakes get Muzza in.

 

[Swansman]

Other - the coaching.

It’s quite incredible that even after he’s retired from playing we’re STILL finding ways to undervalue Glenn Murray.

I love Bruno and want him in the club in some capacity but for goodness sakes get Muzza in.

Well when he quit he said that in a year or so he might want to go into coaching but that he currently wasnt going down that route.

It is hard to force someone to become a football coach.

 

[sydney]

having said that i think we have definitely lost our Mojo with BDB being unexpectedly outed , Biss probably being told he's going nowhere till the end of the season , Ashworth being poached , Webster being injured and now Trossard piping up .....i think we have had the baws whipped off us but we have allowed that to happen , our confidence is shot , it's as simple as that.

i'm not sure you can blame Potter for that , it's the fact that we are a relatively small club currently and as such will be seen as cannon fodder by the bigger , more affluent and less sensible boardrooms......here endeth the lesson. such is life.

 

[Weststander]

Possession stats are like xG stats, they do not guarantee success, but statistically you're far more likely to rank higher in the league if you rank higher in both possession and xG.

We've currently nailed half of that equation.

You’ve obviously checked. I haven’t.

But I wonder what the possession stats are season after season for CP, WHU and Wolves?

At the league position level we realistically aspire to be.

Being honest/realistic, we’re never going to compete with the mega spenders.

 

[Swansman]

You’ve obviously checked. I haven’t.

But I wonder what the possession stats are season after season for CP, WHU and Wolves?

At the league position level we realistically aspire to be.

Being honest/realistic, we’re never going to compete with the mega spenders.

All top 10 teams except Wolves & West Ham have above 50% possession and all bottom 10 teams except Brighton & Leeds have less than 50%.

 

[sydney]

You’ve obviously checked. I haven’t.

But I wonder what the possession stats are season after season for CP, WHU and Wolves?

At the league position level we realistically aspire to be.

Being honest/realistic, we’re never going to compete with the mega spenders.

no , we aint.

 

[Weststander]

All top 10 teams except Wolves & West Ham have above 50% possession and all bottom 10 teams except Brighton & Leeds have less than 50%.

Thanks.

With at least 6 of the other top 10 spending wages/fees/agents money on a different stratosphere to us. The law of averages, inevitably buying superior players and finishers, making the possession count “in the old onion bag, Clive”.