So given today's ruling - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29896810 - who on here that has earned reasonable overtime over the last few years ( and I'm sure there's a lot ) is going to go and demand holiday back pay ?
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Who's willing to challenge their employer ?
- Thread starter Westdene Seagull
- Start date
seagullsovergrimsby
#cpfctinpotclub
Many employees work for businesses who will only give them a part time hours contract and then allow them to work additional hours overtime (not incremental but paid at single rate). If I take a fortnights holiday my holiday pay is worked out on contracted hours which equates to only one weeks pay and not an average of the weekly hours performed in the previous 3 months. Many companies will highlight how including overtime in assessing holiday pay will be exploited by workers taking time off after busy periods by giving the impression overtime is being paid at double or treble rate when in fact millions of employees are reliant on single rate overtime to make ends meet.
Don Quixote
Well-known member
- Nov 4, 2008
- 8,362
ThisPaid overtime
This is why we need stricter control over working hours from the EU.
pasty
A different kind of pasty
Paid overtime
This.
Saying that, it is all swings and roundabouts where I work. If ever I need to leave early, for instance when Albion are at home midweek, or I need to take a morning off for something, my boss is usually pretty cool about it.
tinx
Well-known member
I don't think I've ever been paid overtime in any job i've done in the 20 or so years I've been working.
I think this is good for people on part time contracts who regularly work overtime (supermarket workers for example) to the point that it may as well be their contract, but then have to take a huge knock in pay when they want to go on holiday. I've been in that situation in the past, but it wasn't a huge issue as I was in Uni and didn't have time to go on holiday much. Has been a very big problem for my brother though.
The claim is limited to the past three months, so minimal impact I'd guess!
Poyningsgull
Well-known member
- Apr 12, 2007
- 1,730
if its referred to the Court of Appeal it will take years to decide
Pah, that's not cool, you should be a postie.
We can finish and go home and hour or 2 early on a Tuesday (lightest day of the week)
Then refuse to take out work that MIGHT make us 10 or 15 minutes late on the Wednesday, if it's a heavy day.
Or we can book overtime.
It's like it's still the 1970's.
Oh and for the record I have never been so pathetic, selfish and narrow minded, as it partake in such Spanish Practices.
seagullsovergrimsby
#cpfctinpotclub
It could be that the supermarkets can wriggle out of paying by saying the overtime is being done on a voluntary basis ignoring the fact that the workers rely on overtime 47 weeks of the year with the other 5 weeks taken as holiday.
seagullsovergrimsby
#cpfctinpotclub
It isn't so much about employees making backdated claims but how holiday pay is calculated henceforward.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,020
im afraid what this ruling means is alot of people aren't going to be able to take overtime, employers will not allow short, ad hoc extra hours. i do believe the principle that *regular* overtime hours should be included in holiday, though expecting it to be backdated is going too far (you took the overtime knowing it wasn't included). large companies will find ways around (i.e. employ more part time) or be able to accommodate it, in the end this will hurt small companies most, both employer and employee.
I have to say that this is a ridiculous ruling that will cost British business millions.
First off, I will hold my hands up and cry 'Guilty'. Guilty for taking the pxxs out of my employer about 30 years ago, guilty of being led by the all powerful shop stewards that existed in the printing industry back then, guilty of following the herd rather than think for myself.
The agreement in the print worked as follows. For the previous 13 weeks prior to your time off, whole weeks only so this did not apply to an odd day off, your overtime would be averaged out and then applied to your holiday pay. What this meant in practice was that you would be very inventive/creative about overtime, leading to very slow production in normal working hours, and only marginally better once time and half or double time had kicked in. Also the very unseemly practice of 'ghost working' was common in the print, meaning that although only 8 workers were in the building, up to 12 might be clocked in, leading to more overtime payments. The end result was inflated wages for 3 months topped off with being paid for an 80 hour week whilst lazing around the pool in Lanzarote, happy days!
Okay, times have changed, but technology is always playing catch up, and human nature is human nature, people will try to inflate their overtime payments, and even if not, do we really think it is right that business should foot the bill for their employees not being at work?
First off, I will hold my hands up and cry 'Guilty'. Guilty for taking the pxxs out of my employer about 30 years ago, guilty of being led by the all powerful shop stewards that existed in the printing industry back then, guilty of following the herd rather than think for myself.
The agreement in the print worked as follows. For the previous 13 weeks prior to your time off, whole weeks only so this did not apply to an odd day off, your overtime would be averaged out and then applied to your holiday pay. What this meant in practice was that you would be very inventive/creative about overtime, leading to very slow production in normal working hours, and only marginally better once time and half or double time had kicked in. Also the very unseemly practice of 'ghost working' was common in the print, meaning that although only 8 workers were in the building, up to 12 might be clocked in, leading to more overtime payments. The end result was inflated wages for 3 months topped off with being paid for an 80 hour week whilst lazing around the pool in Lanzarote, happy days!
Okay, times have changed, but technology is always playing catch up, and human nature is human nature, people will try to inflate their overtime payments, and even if not, do we really think it is right that business should foot the bill for their employees not being at work?
Lord Bracknell
On fire
What seems to have been decided by this ruling effectively comes down to a rule that every hour of actual employment (whether contractual or overtime) needs to be accompanied by a payment for holidays.
The holiday pay probably amounts to about 7-8 minutes' pay for every hour actually worked. Considering that there's already an obligation to pay holiday pay for "standard" working hours and many employers already comply with this "new" rule, it seems to me that there's not much for employers to fret about with this ruling.
seagullsovergrimsby
#cpfctinpotclub
This might upset the BIG 4 supermarkets where 85% to 90% of the workforce are on a part time hours contract and make their hours up to a reasonable level with overtime (ie 16 hours contract + 16 hours single rate overtime per week)