[Football] Who’s not watching the World Cup?

[Hamilton]

Well, let's be clear, all of my post was whataboutary. It doesn't mean I support the World Cup going to Qatar. I do, however, personally feel that not turning on my telly won't make a blind bit of difference to a country and regime that's built on millennia of tribal and Islamic culture.

There are two things that may come out of this tournament and they are independent of each other. The first is most likely and it is that the grim reality of the tournament itself will stop FIFA making such an obviously poor decision in the future. I think we're starting to see that already. Multiple domestic leagues interrupted and yet the opening game featured a host nation team full of farmers who'd struggle to compete with Aldershot, and their entitled fans doing one after 70 minutes. We've had issues with a sponsor and the provision of beer, ongoing issues with the One Love armband, Infantino looking like a prize idiot. There will be people even in a corrupt quango like FIFA who will be saying "this can never happen again".

The second is that a seed of a tiny bit of change may be sown. That the light we shine on Qatar will somehow reflect back on them and they think "hang on, the rest of the world thinks a bit differently". I don't see it in this generation but maybe the next or the one after that.

A couple of other points though. Firstly, there was a feature on the BBC on women's football in Qatar which is quite clearly still going. You wouldn't have seen it because you're not watching and therefore denying yourself a view of that side of the argument.

Secondly things are bad enough in Hungary without needing the law. In fact there are homophobic attacks that are ignored by a crypto fascist government. Sauce? The Hungarian guy I worked with for the last 18 months who had to get him and his family out and he's only "a bit liberal" in his words. This is also a country whose ultras regularly seem to get away with racially abusing opponents.

They're not Arabs though, are they?

Turn your telly on then.

I've said before, I'm not going to judge those that do. I merely feel robbed. You appear to want to react to that. Maybe you're feeling some guilt. That's fine. And I understand why you still want to watch the World Cup. I want to watch it too - it's just that I won't. It doesn't make me a better or worse person that you - we're all trapped.

As for the women's game in Qatar, I think what you've seen is simply a smokescreen. It isn't true that the game has had any investment. The national team has not played since 2014. the few female footballer there are, are a mix of ex-pats and a few Qataris. There are very few teams or spaces to play.

 

[Durlston]

Today's probably going to be the hardest one to avoid of them all.

Sticking to my guns. If I broke my moral code, I couldn't concentrate anyway on what's happening on the pitch.

RIP migrant workers. You'll be looked after in heaven.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Today's probably going to be the hardest one to avoid of them all.

Sticking to my guns. If I broke my moral code, I couldn't concentrate anyway on what's happening on the pitch.

RIP migrant workers. You'll be looked after in heaven.

Today's probably going to be the hardest one to avoid of them all.

Sticking to my guns. If I broke my moral code, I couldn't concentrate anyway on what's happening on the pitch.

RIP migrant workers. You'll be looked after in heaven.

tbf I’ll find today quite easy to miss….disinterested in England football team…matches while I am working …all a bit meh….matches involving a Brighton player and at the right time of day ..I’ll take an interest

 

[Hamilton]

For God's sake Kane. Wear the bloody armband and take the yellow card. Sometimes you just have to stand up for what is right. It might be the best thing you ever do in an England shirt.

 

[Springal]

For God's sake Kane. Wear the bloody armband and take the yellow card. Sometimes you just have to stand up for what is right. It might be the best thing you ever do in an England shirt.

Gary Neville’s idea was betterZ give it to a different member of coaching staff every game

 

[BadFish]

Oh I’m not claiming perfection and that I’m sitting here surrounded by products made by myself weaved entirely from hemp, but I try to avoid the very worst offenders. Where there are clear and obvious abuses that I know about, I change my behaviour to avoid those organisations as far as I reasonably can.

We all have blind spots and are ignorant about a lot of what goes on in the world, but I do my utmost to not feed the monster when these abuses are carried out in plain sight and widely reported on. You’re still engaging in whataboutery btw.

I agree, I will continue to try and make better choices in what I consume. I won't get it right all the time but I fully reject the notion that if you can't be perfect you should not bother at all. It makes no sense to me.

I am also not really sure why those of us who are choosing not to get involved are having to justify our choice to this degree. It feels like a number of 'yeah the thing shouldn't be happening but you should still watch it' posts.

 

[1066familyman]

Well, let's be clear, all of my post was whataboutary. It doesn't mean I support the World Cup going to Qatar. I do, however, personally feel that not turning on my telly won't make a blind bit of difference to a country and regime that's built on millennia of tribal and Islamic culture.

There are two things that may come out of this tournament and they are independent of each other. The first is most likely and it is that the grim reality of the tournament itself will stop FIFA making such an obviously poor decision in the future. I think we're starting to see that already. Multiple domestic leagues interrupted and yet the opening game featured a host nation team full of farmers who'd struggle to compete with Aldershot, and their entitled fans doing one after 70 minutes. We've had issues with a sponsor and the provision of beer, ongoing issues with the One Love armband, Infantino looking like a prize idiot. There will be people even in a corrupt quango like FIFA who will be saying "this can never happen again".

The second is that a seed of a tiny bit of change may be sown. That the light we shine on Qatar will somehow reflect back on them and they think "hang on, the rest of the world thinks a bit differently". I don't see it in this generation but maybe the next or the one after that.

A couple of other points though. Firstly, there was a feature on the BBC on women's football in Qatar which is quite clearly still going. You wouldn't have seen it because you're not watching and therefore denying yourself a view of that side of the argument.

Secondly things are bad enough in Hungary without needing the law. In fact there are homophobic attacks that are ignored by a crypto fascist government. Sauce? The Hungarian guy I worked with for the last 18 months who had to get him and his family out and he's only "a bit liberal" in his words. This is also a country whose ultras regularly seem to get away with racially abusing opponents.

They're not Arabs though, are they?

I think there's a common mistake made by many in the 'Western world' that 'our' view of the world is the majority view of the world. It isn't.

 

[WATFORD zero]

For God's sake Kane. Wear the bloody armband and take the yellow card. Sometimes you just have to stand up for what is right. It might be the best thing you ever do in an England shirt.

I think all England players (and subs) should wear the armband and force the ref to book them all. Probably then get sendings off and show FIFA up for the complete farce they are

 

[dejavuatbtn]

Now the armbands! Christ, talk about control. This World Cup is disgusting.

 

[Springal]

Now the armbands! Christ, talk about control. This World Cup is disgusting.

From the laws of the game.

5. Slogans, statements, images and advertising

Equipment must not have any political, religious or personal slogans, statements or images. Players must not reveal undergarments that show political, religious, personal slogans, statements or images, or advertising other than the manufacturer's logo. For any offence the player and/or the team will be sanctioned by the competition organiser, national football association or by FIFA.

 

[Stato]

The armband fuss and the mad ramblings of Johnny Toddler highlight that the long-term problem in international football is obviously not Qatar, it is Fifa. If the FBI's case is to be believed, this World Cup and the last one were both awarded to the states that were ready to personally enrich voters: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...r-qatar-world-cup-votes-us-prosecutors-allege

This scandal should have spelled the end of the organisation, not just the end of those who pleaded guilty to offences. It showed there to be no effective governance and, as I understand it, there has been no internal investigation into the procedures that got us to this place since Infantino took over. All the time Fifa is in charge of football, corruption, politicking and PR will hold sway.

We can boycott this World Cup because it represents the starkest evidence of the corruption at the heart of the organisation, but after it is over, the same bunch of self-serving parasites will be dictating what happens at every future World Cup. All the time that we focus primarily on the iniquities in Qatar, apologists can argue that it's Western cultural racism or pivot to the hypocrisy of criticising football, but not other business dealings with countries that have disgraceful human rights records. The focus really needs to shift from Qatar to Fifa. The organisation has been so riddled with corruption over such a long period, that it just needs to end. If it doesn't, people who just want to watch football will continue to feel compromised every time a World Cup comes around.

 

[Steve in Japan]

I think all England players (and subs) should wear the armband and force the ref to book them all. Probably then get sendings off and show FIFA up for the complete farce they are

How about they all wear a One-Love T-Shirt under their footie shirt. Score and whip off the shirt, get max value for the yellow card.

 

[BadFish]

The armband fuss and the mad ramblings of Johnny Toddler highlight that the long-term problem in international football is obviously not Qatar, it is Fifa. If the FBI's case is to be believed, this World Cup and the last one were both awarded to the states that were ready to personally enrich voters: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...r-qatar-world-cup-votes-us-prosecutors-allege

This scandal should have spelled the end of the organisation, not just the end of those who pleaded guilty to offences. It showed there to be no effective governance and, as I understand it, there has been no internal investigation into the procedures that got us to this place since Infantino took over. All the time Fifa is in charge of football, corruption, politicking and PR will hold sway.

We can boycott this World Cup because it represents the starkest evidence of the corruption at the heart of the organisation, but after it is over, the same bunch of self-serving parasites will be dictating what happens at every future World Cup. All the time that we focus primarily on the iniquities in Qatar, apologists can argue that it's Western cultural racism or pivot to the hypocrisy of criticising football, but not other business dealings with countries that have disgraceful human rights records. The focus really needs to shift from Qatar to Fifa. The organisation has been so riddled with corruption over such a long period, that it just needs to end. If it doesn't, people who just want to watch football will continue to feel compromised every time a World Cup comes around.

Agreed. As I alluded to in my earlier post this isn't a out a single issue. I would also say that for me (and I suspect many others) my boycott of this world cup is as much aimed at FIFA as it is Qatar maybe even more so.

My hope is that they sort their shit out so I don't have to feel compromised when deciding whether to watch the next one.

 

[Hotchilidog]

The armband fuss and the mad ramblings of Johnny Toddler highlight that the long-term problem in international football is obviously not Qatar, it is Fifa. If the FBI's case is to be believed, this World Cup and the last one were both awarded to the states that were ready to personally enrich voters: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...r-qatar-world-cup-votes-us-prosecutors-allege

This scandal should have spelled the end of the organisation, not just the end of those who pleaded guilty to offences. It showed there to be no effective governance and, as I understand it, there has been no internal investigation into the procedures that got us to this place since Infantino took over. All the time Fifa is in charge of football, corruption, politicking and PR will hold sway.

We can boycott this World Cup because it represents the starkest evidence of the corruption at the heart of the organisation, but after it is over, the same bunch of self-serving parasites will be dictating what happens at every future World Cup. All the time that we focus primarily on the iniquities in Qatar, apologists can argue that it's Western cultural racism or pivot to the hypocrisy of criticising football, but not other business dealings with countries that have disgraceful human rights records. The focus really needs to shift from Qatar to Fifa. The organisation has been so riddled with corruption over such a long period, that it just needs to end. If it doesn't, people who just want to watch football will continue to feel compromised every time a World Cup comes around.

You are absolutely correct. FIFA in it's current form is a busted flush, it needs a complete overhaul or replacing. In my view it is very important for the future of football that this World Cup is a failure. If it gets spun as any kind of success then the gravy train will carry on running down those tracks to Corruption Central. The national associations have a responsibility to insist on change at FIFA or form a new governing body that removes the power way from the Executive Committee. Qatar 22 is merely a symptom of the malaise not the actual sickness itself.

The World Cup is meant to be a thing of joy, a celebration of a sport that we all love and genuinely does bring the world together in a positive fashion. FIFA are now the problem in my opinion.

 

[Stato]

The rules only apply to equipment. There's nothing to stop anybdy who wants to getting a tattoo or having a rainbow shaved into their hair. Also, as the manufacturer's logo is the only exception allowed, presumably you could use one of the many rainbow logos that Nike has already produced.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

From the laws of the game.

5. Slogans, statements, images and advertising

Equipment must not have any political, religious or personal slogans, statements or images. Players must not reveal undergarments that show political, religious, personal slogans, statements or images, or advertising other than the manufacturer's logo. For any offence the player and/or the team will be sanctioned by the competition organiser, national football association or by FIFA.

Put it on Southgate, his attire isn’t deemed to be equipment

 

[Springal]

Put it on Southgate, his attire isn’t deemed to be equipment

What Gary Neville said.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

Black armband it is then or a new line in rainbow tracksuits.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I feel for Fifa. They only had months to make this decision.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The problem is FIFA has allowed a country who does not share their values to host the FIFA World Cup. There is no getting around this problem unless Qatar changes its stance, which it won't do.

In many ways, Kane would be doing FIFA a favour by wearing the armband and thereby reasserting FIFA'S own stated values, enabling FIFA to recast the original decision to give them the World Cup as a 'rogue decision' made by discredited officials.

However, if FIFA allow the yellow card ruling to stand then they will only be agreeing with discrimination and so - morally - they will have lost ALL authority.

Kane should wear the armband.