Who Will Moxey Ban This Time?

[Tooting Gull]

You obviously have no clue about this issue. No idea whatsoever. No concept at all of what it is like to follow a club that does have a hooligan problem. And that's a no surprise as the club you support is about as about as safe and cosy as any other in the Football League.

What have the decent Cardiff fans ever done to combat the problem of hooliganism? It's difficult to know where to start really. Were you aware that representatives of our club's two main supporters clubs travel all over the country to meet with police and safety officers of the clubs we are visiting in advance of every away game? Were you aware that the dialogue between the fans' groups and the local police is almost constant? Do you know anything at all about the measures that Cardiff City FC and its supporters take to combat hooliganism on a weekly basis?

I doubt it.

I wasn't aware of that, and it certainly shows a willingness to tackle the issue. But sorry for being boring, we keep coming back to the same thing. However laudable those efforts are, THEY AREN'T WORKING - more direct action needs to be taken, you are going to have to 'give up' the worst offenders. Be honest, people know who they are.

"All it takes for evil to succeeed is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

 

[Uncle Buck]

I must admitt trips to Cardiff in the last couple of seasons we have played them have been much more pleasant than some previous ones, so fair play to the supporters, club etc for trying to sort things.

However they do have a bad reputation and it will take a long time for that to go. Also it does not help when your then chairman is picture with some of the worst offenders, has one of them on his security staff and basically is not condemming them on TV.

 

[The Laughing Bluebird]

Rob: how can you "rat" on people you don't know? How can you report incidents you don't see? And, if you do witness hooligan behaviour, how many people would be prepared to confront a nutcase who is bigger and more violent than themselves?

There's an important factor to remember here: problems at Cardiff games, and the resultant number of arrests, have reduced quite dramatically in recent years, and yet the restrictions seem to actually increase. That's what City's law-abiding fans find most frustrating.

 

[sten_super]

Yes. I read it. It was a load of self-righteous bollocks. You obviously didn't have a clue what you were talking about with regard to the incidents at Wolves last March.

That's fine. At least if he'd written back to me saying that it would have been a reply!

 

[The Laughing Bluebird]

But sorry for being boring, we keep coming back to the same thing. However laudable those efforts are, THEY AREN'T WORKING

In what respect?

Arrests at Cardiff games have decreased steadily over the last four years and trouble at matches is now a far less frequent occurrence.

 

[Man of Harveys]

You obviously have no clue about this issue. No idea whatsoever. No concept at all of what it is like to follow a club that does have a hooligan problem. And that's a no surprise as the club you support is about as about as safe and cosy as any other in the Football League.

What have the decent Cardiff fans ever done to combat the problem of hooliganism? It's difficult to know where to start really. Were you aware that representatives of our club's two main supporters clubs travel all over the country to meet with police and safety officers of the clubs we are visiting in advance of every away game? Were you aware that the dialogue between the fans' groups and the local police is almost constant? Do you know anything at all about the measures that Cardiff City FC and its supporters take to combat hooliganism on a weekly basis?

I doubt it.

No, I didn't realise that some of your supporters sometimes meet with the police (it can't be that unusual though). That's almost impressive. Sarcasm aside, it's a start.

But have you ever admitted that even the slightest, tiniest little bit of blame for why Cardiff fans are banned from Wolves lies with bad behaviour of...erm, Cardiff fans? That they're the reason why Cardiff fans are banned from Wolves, not other clubs' fans? Or it easier just to play victim and demonise their chief exec to anyone who'll listen?

Because until you do, I'd say that you sound EXACTLY like the archetypal hoolie apologist - and there have been some on here too, I'd be the first to admit it - who try to blame "overzealous" foreign authorities, say, for the fact that they were all throwing chairs at policemen. That approach has never really quite held water, IMHO.

 

[The Wookiee]

the club you support is about as about as safe and cosy as any other in the Football League.

I always find the Station Hotel pub near Preston Park station a nice safe and cosy place to drink on a Sturday afternoon.
Lovely place with beautiful charming flower pots decorating outside and in

 

[Albion Rob]

Rob: how can you "rat" on people you don't know? How can you report incidents you don't see? And, if you do witness hooligan behaviour, how many people would be prepared to confront a nutcase who is bigger and more violent than themselves?

There's an important factor to remember here: problems at Cardiff games, and the resultant number of arrests, have reduced quite dramatically in recent years, and yet the restrictions seem to actually increase. That's what City's law-abiding fans find most frustrating.

But surely they must be fairly prominent at matches? Surely a lot of non-hooligans know who these people are.

I'm not for a moment suggesting anyone confronts people but at the same time, they could call the police, take pictures (be careful if you do that) or remember their faces and then supply the info to the police.

Good luck in rooting them out.

 

[The Laughing Bluebird]

Also it does not help when your then chairman is picture with some of the worst offenders, has one of them on his security staff and basically is not condemming them on TV.

Believe me, Hammam did more to conquer the hooliganism problem during his six years here than the rest of the club's previous chairmen put together.

His initial tactics may not have been seen by some as appropriate, but they worked to a fair degree and he was publicly praised on a number of occasions by the South Wales Police and the local council for his willingness to confront the issue and try to deal with it.

 

[sten_super]

Rob: how can you "rat" on people you don't know? How can you report incidents you don't see? And, if you do witness hooligan behaviour, how many people would be prepared to confront a nutcase who is bigger and more violent than themselves?

There's an important factor to remember here: problems at Cardiff games, and the resultant number of arrests, have reduced quite dramatically in recent years, and yet the restrictions seem to actually increase. That's what City's law-abiding fans find most frustrating.

I must admit LB that you've gone a long way to convincing me in this thread that I probably did jump to easily and quickly to the wrong conclusions about this. It sounds more and more like you are being treated on the basis of your reputation, rather than what is actually happening at games. If games pass off without trouble (such as in the Coventry example) then you shouldn't be put through extra measures to supposedly ensure that problems don't happen. But at the same time, when there has been trouble (and there was at the Wolves game last year, whether caused by Cardiff fans or the police. As you rightly point out I don't know exactly what happened) some action must be taken. And the easiest way to do it is to ban away fans. Obviously not the fairest, but the easiest. And cheapest. So unfortunately that is what football clubs (and police forces) are going to go for. And it's certainly a lot easier than the police force actually admitting any liability for trouble they may have caused!

I'd be interested to know who pays for the extra police if/when they are required. Do Cardiff have to pay the money (even though they are the away team) or is it met by the home team? I'm talking more about in the ground, as I'd presume that the home team would have no obligation in terms of police at service stations, etc which would be covered by the away team.

 

[The Laughing Bluebird]

But surely they must be fairly prominent at matches? Surely a lot of non-hooligans know who these people are.

If non-hooligans know who these people are, do you honestly believe the authorities don't?

A minimum of four South Wales Police officers travel to every Cardiff away game, along with ten or more of the club's stewards. They know exactly who is who, believe me. But you cannot arrest people and ban them from football matches unless you have evidence that they have committed an offence, and as I've said before trouble at Cardiff games is now a rare event.

 

[Commander]

I'm not for a moment suggesting anyone confronts people but at the same time, they could call the police, take pictures

 

[Tooting Gull]

OK fair enough, they may have worked to a degree, but they haven't eradicated the problem by a long way.

Tidying the deckchairs on the Titanic. Or something.

 

[Tooting Gull]

as I've said before trouble at Cardiff games is now a rare event.

And therein lies your problem in convincing the police. You will say there's no longer any need for the restrictions. They will say it's due to the restrictions there is less trouble. Who's to say who is right?

 

[Albion Rob]

And therein lies your problem in convincing the police. You will say there's no longer any need for the restrictions. They will say it's due to the restrictions there is less trouble. Who's to say who is right?

Exactly.

An earlier poster was right, Cardiff are being judged by reputation but whatever way you look at it, that reputation was pretty well earned.

As someone else said, it will take a long time to convince people the situation has changed but every time a match passes off without trouble then that's one-up in the Cardiff fans to be free from restrictions column.

As I said, best of luck, it can't be nice to ne herded around on a Saturday afternoon when you've never been involved in trouble in your life.

 

[Starry]

So the main people moaning about how nastily and unfairly they get treated at Wolves are...erm, the ever-angelic followers of Cardiff City and Leeds United...purlease...

Not a problem with us at Wolves either, is a good day out. We're off there in a few weeks, tickets just arrived today and we are free to do as we please, travel how we want, drink where we want and support our team.