[Albion] Who will fill the role of The Killer?

[Machiavelli]

We don't have the players for 3-4-3 at the moment, but we're getting there with Barco signed, so long as Hinshlewood recovers. I think we really need to see the ins and outs before we decide who the 'killer' is, if indeed we have one. Gross staying or going and / or Undav staying or going changes who I'd have in the front seven of that system and where.

Let's say for arguments sake we do go 3-4-3 and don't have too many ins and outs then it would be reasonable to assume a front three of Mitoma, Enciso and Pedro. Enciso there wouldn't be in the Hartel role, it would be Gross or his replacement from the '4'. All the STP lineups I've seen have Hartel playing there and not in the front three? I think that's a waste of Mitoma though and hence why I don't think we currently have the right players for it.

I'm only basing my StP positional comments on articles and nerdy videos but IIRC Hartel is used in the CM duo and on the left of the front 3 too.
Agree with the thrust of the post. My broader view (which I'd doubt you'll disagree with) is that we need to see how FH uses the players that we have and what new signings come in (which might be late in the window, ie after the season starts) before insisting on assigning players to roles within that system and making logical leaps from a singular premise which might well be a false one once we have seen how FH sets us up and uses the players available.

 

[Machiavelli]

Who ran the game for Scotland last night?

How 'fabulous' Billy Gilmour helped spark Scotland revival

How 'fabulous' Billy Gilmour helped spark Scotland revival

www.bbc.co.uk

And didn't get an assist or goal. Again.

 

[GT49er]

And didn't get an assist or goal. Again.

Neither did anybody else. Although his control and quick thinking were critical in setting up the OG.

 

[Whitechapel]

Talk about selective use of statistics! 22/23 stats not valid then?

Who ran the game for Scotland last night?

How 'fabulous' Billy Gilmour helped spark Scotland revival

How 'fabulous' Billy Gilmour helped spark Scotland revival

www.bbc.co.uk

23/24 stats not valid then?

 

[Machiavelli]

Neither did anybody else. Although his control and quick thinking were critical in setting up the OG.

McTominay and Robertson(?) might just beg to differ with this.
All I'll say is this thread is about who is 'The Killer' and, however good WBG was in setting up the goal last night, he didn't play a 'killer' role in it and, to return to my first contribution to this which you responded to, notched up just one assist in the PL last season and is yet to score at PL level at the ripe young age of 23.

 

[GT49er]

23/24 stats not valid then?

I didn't quote any stats.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I'm only basing my StP positional comments on articles and nerdy videos but IIRC Hartel is used in the CM duo and on the left of the front 3 too.
Agree with the thrust of the post. My broader view (which I'd doubt you'll disagree with) is that we need to see how FH uses the players that we have and what new signings come in (which might be late in the window, ie after the season starts) before insisting on assigning players to roles within that system and making logical leaps from a singular premise which might well be a false one once we have seen how FH sets us up and uses the players available.

Totally agree with your broader view.

At the moment Gross could, at a push, play in the middle of the 4 and push into a left sided 10. He has everything for that except pace. Enciso was used as Swansman described at Newcastle to run at and beat players and look to play the killer assist or goal, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near CM.

As for the wide players in the 4, assuming they're what we think of as wingbacks, this is what we have:

Potentially Excellent: Barco, Estupinian, Hinshlewood
Good but injury prone: Lamptey
Would have a very long season: Veltman
I'd rather shit in my hands and clap than see them at wingback: Adingra, Mitoma, March, Osman, Milner

But I'm assuming a lot with 'wingbacks'. If FH operates more like Liverpool where the fullbacks push on and a CM covers for them then JV would probably still be ok. Still think that in a 3-4-3 that it's Enciso, Pedro and one other up top in the strongest current XI which would mean we have too many wingers.

Will be an interesting close season / transfer window and I can't wait to get my first glimpse of how we set up.

 

[The Wookiee]

Maybe we'll sign Hartel

I think he has signed for PAOK

 

[MJsGhost]

One of these?

View attachment 184359

A couple of these more like:

 

[The Fits]

According to Fbref KDH is one of the closest players statically to Hartel. A weird coincidence.
Number one is Hamburger's Laszlo who's had a stray bit unremarkable career to date. Could the Slovakian be the man we need to unlock Fabball?
Rangers linked with a £5Million move.
(The answer is KDH)

 

[Superphil]

Makes sense that you would have quit the Leicester forum today

Oh, is this the Swedish person who naffed most people off regarding potter?

 

[Comrade Sam]

Kevin de Bruyne?

 

[Seagull58]

Totally agree with your broader view.

At the moment Gross could, at a push, play in the middle of the 4 and push into a left sided 10. He has everything for that except pace. Enciso was used as Swansman described at Newcastle to run at and beat players and look to play the killer assist or goal, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near CM.

As for the wide players in the 4, assuming they're what we think of as wingbacks, this is what we have:

Potentially Excellent: Barco, Estupinian, Hinshlewood
Good but injury prone: Lamptey
Would have a very long season: Veltman
I'd rather shit in my hands and clap than see them at wingback: Adingra, Mitoma, March, Osman, Milner

But I'm assuming a lot with 'wingbacks'. If FH operates more like Liverpool where the fullbacks push on and a CM covers for them then JV would probably still be ok. Still think that in a 3-4-3 that it's Enciso, Pedro and one other up top in the strongest current XI which would mean we have too many wingers.

Will be an interesting close season / transfer window and I can't wait to get my first glimpse of how we set up.

What is our best XI and what is the best formation for them?
I would offer:-
Verbruggen
Dunk
Van Hecke
Estupinian
Gilmour
Baleba
Gross
Enciso
March
Mitoma
Pedro

but there is no obvious 3rd CB or RWB if we play a 3 and no obvious RB if we play a 4.

 

[The Fits]

What is our best XI and what is the best formation for them?
I would offer:-
Verbruggen
Dunk
Van Hecke
Estupinian
Gilmour
Baleba
Gross
Enciso
March
Mitoma
Pedro

but there is no obvious 3rd CB or RWB if we play a 3 and no obvious RB if we play a 4.

Curse injuries, that's a bloody good team.

 

[US Seagull]

Never even joined! Saw some photos of Leicester though and thought "ok, thats... a place. Location". Happy though, no one here even knows how to pronounce Leicester, whereas everyone knows about the hipster tourist ghetto that appears to be Brighton. But I'm willing to hear people to describe the city of Leicester in a more positive way.

I went to college in Leicester, it's alright.

If you ever find yourself there, the natives will appreciate if you try to pronounce it correctly. It's "lie-chest-err"

 

[Guinness Boy]

What is our best XI and what is the best formation for them?
I would offer:-
Verbruggen
Dunk
Van Hecke
Estupinian
Gilmour
Baleba
Gross
Enciso
March
Mitoma
Pedro

but there is no obvious 3rd CB or RWB if we play a 3 and no obvious RB if we play a 4.

With everyone fit I obviously like the RDZ early default 4-2-3-1 with

Verbruggen
Hinshlewood Dunk Van Hecke Estupinian
Gilmour Gross
March Enciso Mitoma
Pedro

But that's because it's how I've seen it work well when they are fit.

3-4-3 with no squad changes feels a bit more

Verbruggen
Veltman (RCB) Dunk Van Hecke
Hinshlewood Glimour (but maybe Baleba in this system) Gross Estupinian
Enciso Pedro Mitoma

But you wouldn't want Velts starting at RCB every game, you'd need to get good games out of Adingra, March and Ferguson and the midfield with just Milner and Moder as back ups for the three mentioned feels horribly light (Dahoud ain't staying with any luck). It's why I think there'll be a few in and outs or a tweak in tactics from FH.

(edit, yes missing out Webster is deliberate as I believe we'll be playing possession football again)

 

[portlock seagull]

I spent some time watching ten Pauli games from last season to see what we could expect next season, and I'm very surprised. Slow, controlled, lots of creative freedom. A return to being a poor mans Liverpool rather than a poor mans Tottenham. Good stuff, genuinely excited. Of course I want to kill Hurzeler with a rusty plastic hammer due to being younger than me, but lets face it - its impossible not to get at the very least curious.

Anyway, most interesting thing about Pauli was the role of Marcel Hartel, who made a bunch of assists and goals. While most players were into "better controlled than sorry" mode, Hartel was seemingly instructed to look for decisive solutions every time he had the ball: the finishing pass or cross, shooting, dribbling. Involved in nearly everything. 50/50 he loses the ball or it leads to something really dangerous,

Assuming a similar strategy of a "killer player", who would be ours? Mitoma maybe, since he can do everything. But probably better off "feeding" from "The Killer" (getting morbid now).

Gross is the obvious option. But what if he leaves? Who has the qualities to provide that final spark in the final third?

Is that a play maker? A far more positive label

 

[Machiavelli]

Totally agree with your broader view.

At the moment Gross could, at a push, play in the middle of the 4 and push into a left sided 10. He has everything for that except pace. Enciso was used as Swansman described at Newcastle to run at and beat players and look to play the killer assist or goal, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near CM.

As for the wide players in the 4, assuming they're what we think of as wingbacks, this is what we have:

Potentially Excellent: Barco, Estupinian, Hinshlewood
Good but injury prone: Lamptey
Would have a very long season: Veltman
I'd rather shit in my hands and clap than see them at wingback: Adingra, Mitoma, March, Osman, Milner

But I'm assuming a lot with 'wingbacks'. If FH operates more like Liverpool where the fullbacks push on and a CM covers for them then JV would probably still be ok. Still think that in a 3-4-3 that it's Enciso, Pedro and one other up top in the strongest current XI which would mean we have too many wingers.

Will be an interesting close season / transfer window and I can't wait to get my first glimpse of how we set up.

Broadly agree. If it is 343, I wouldn't be too adverse to March and/or Mitoma playing WB. With Mitoma, I just think he's most effective on the touchline, as it allows him more time and to receive the ball facing the goal -- both of which allow him to be devastating.
I'll duck out of going further down the discussing players-in-positions route, due to my previous broader point (let's see how effective I am to keeping to it).

 

[Oh_aye]

The same WBG that is yet to record a PL goal, and got just one assist in 30+ PL games last season?

Stats are for American children. I'm all about the vibe.

 

[GT49er]

Broadly agree. If it is 343, I wouldn't be too adverse to March and/or Mitoma playing WB. With Mitoma, I just think he's most effective on the touchline, as it allows him more time and to receive the ball facing the goal -- both of which allow him to be devastating.
I'll duck out of going further down the discussing players-in-positions route, due to my previous broader point (let's see how effective I am to keeping to it).

If it is to be 3-4-3, surely it would be Estupinan or Barco at LWB, with Mitoma on the right of the front three (based on current personnel, that is).