Who was a better Prime Minister than Margaret Thatcher in your lifetime - if anyone?

[Dandyman]

Prime Ministers during my lifetime:
Sir Winston Churchill (1951-1955)
Sir Anthony Eden (1955-1957)
Harold McMillan (1957-1963)
Sir Alec Douglas-Home (1963-1964)
Harold Wilson(1964-1970 and 1974-1976)
Edward Heath (1970-1974)
James Callaghan (1976-1979)
Margaret Thatcher (1979-1990)
John Major (1990-1997)
Tony Blair (1997-2007)
Gordon Brown (2007-2010)
David Cameron (2010-)

I remember the State funeral of Churchill but the first PM I was aware of was Harold Wilson, who was seen as a witty, modern, working-class PM, as opposed to the old- school aristos, Home and Eden. Wilson liked The Beatles and the "white heat" of technology and presided over the Swinging Sixties. He was the right PM at the right time. At school, we held our own General Election in 1964, and Wilson won. We didn't know it then, but he was a crafty manipulator of the soundbite and networking.

Heath was a toothy twonk who liked sailing and the organ, both hobbies as boring as his tenure of No 10. He was responsible for the 3-day week and a complete lightweight who subsequently sulked his way through Thatcher's tenure.

Callaghan was seen as another lightweight, or at least, that's how I saw him. I was too involved with my new boyfriend, and my wedding and baby to be bothered with anything he did. But I remember the strikes, the strikes, and some more strikes. Crisis? What crisis? he asked.

Thatcher made a real impact. She made necessary changes, because the country did have to be hauled into the 20th century. Wilson had paved the way, but he overspent, leaving debts Callaghan couldn't cope with, which Thatcher managed to reduce. On the other hand, she sold off too many national assets, from State-owned utilities to Council Houses. She failed to compromise with the unions, though the unions also failed to compromise with her. But this left a manufacturing void, which she made no effort to fill, except by encouraging banks and insurance companies to make money out of our money, with little in return. Her monetarism opened the doors to too many foreign countries who rushed to buy too many of our assets, which should have remained British-owned, if not State-owned. On Europe, she was right, and it destroyed her. In fact, at the time, her stance on Europe was the only thing where I was actually in agreement with her.

John Major quietly got on with things, but I always had a sneaking admiration for him. A working-class Brixton boy without a formal higher education, he was the embodiment of the American ideal, that anybody can become Prime Minister, which Thatcher had encouraged and developed. He left a vibrant economy for the next Labour Government to inherit, and destroy.

Tony Blair was attractive, but a disaster. He acted his way through his No 10 years, saying the right things at the right time, but often doing the wrong things at the wrong time. While the Heath Government dug in to the destruction of the British Education system, Blair continued it, by letting everybody pass their exams and go to university, but to achieve this, the whole system had to be dumbed down. Now, there is so much ignorance around, it is terrifyingly sad, yet an entire generation thinks they've had the best education, ever. When they mature, they will realise just how little they really know. The ten years of education under Blair has produced a mixed generation of unemployable feral youth and youngsters who expect high wages and are unprepared to start at the bottom of the career ladder.

Cameron was an effective Opposition Leader, but has proved impotent as a Prime Minister, and I lay that at the door of the highly unintelligent Clegg and Cameron's lack of conviction. The Millibands are career Marxists, trained from birth to be politicians and receive high office, which means they will say whatever the Left-Wing wants to hear in order to secure power. The reality of this was demonstrated when one brother betrayed the other, more politically-talented, brother and we are left with a little baby as our next prospective PM. If I am worried about what has gone on before, then it is nothing to what will happen if Ed Milliband becomes the next PM.

The best Prime Minister in my lifetime? Probably John Major.

"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin".
- Nye Bevan.


Churchill before he became senile overthrew the last democratic leader of Iran, Eden was responsible for the criminal invasion of Suez, Douglas-Home was a joke even in his day, Thatcher and Major both presided over economic and social disaster. McMillan is the only Tory leader, I have any respect for and I doubt he would be a Tory in today's climate.

 

[kemptown kid]

All of them less hateful than Thatcher. Wilson probably achieved most for ordinary people.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Walpole

 

[Flex Your Head]

No contest.

 

[Cesar Chavez]

Staggering to think that John Major was PM for 7 years! All I remember is his Spitting Image!

Best PM in my lifetime, Howard Wilson.

 

[Cesar Chavez]

Because we won the World Cup!!

Staggering to think that John Major was PM for 7 years! All I remember is his Spitting Image!

Best PM in my lifetime, Howard Wilson.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Jim Hacker.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Attlee: a gentle man of humility who over-reached himself and attempted to do in one hit what the country couldn't afford whilst keep all the trappings of Empire
Churchill: almost dead
Eden: made an appalling misjudgement and then conked out
Mac: out of touch and patrician; did well with the colonies. Desperately short of energy
Douglas-Hume: around so briefly he didn't have time to do much wrong. Or do much at all really
Wilson: duplicious chancer who talked a good talk about technology's white heat while most of Europe overtook us
Heath: Brooding and a bit bonkers. Had more hinterland than most. Shallow and lonely
Callaghan: Old-tyme Labour machine politician. Avuncular, chummy and out of his depth. Personally presented the country to MT
Thatcher: hard working, personally kind, probably honest, one dimensional and utterly flawed
Major: just a manager, brought to a sorry end by his resident nutters
Blair: pragmatic; over-Atlanticist, appalling judgement
Brown: a little bit mad
Cameron: another manager

 

[HovaGirl]

Hovagirl,

Callaghan did not actually say 'Crisis? What Crisis?'

These were the words written by a headline writer of a Tory-supporting paper.

I know that. But it's what he is remembered for.

 

[HovaGirl]

Astoundingly selectiveand quirkyrésumés, obviously based on your personal recollections and political persuasions. Here's some selective supplements:You're correct about Thatcher's woeful financial track record. Debt reduction was funded by the sale-of-the-century nationalised industries/utilities flog-off. She simultaneously squandered the North Sea oil windfall by selling off drilling rights at knock down prices to foreign companies and using the UK oil revenues/royalties to fund her political dogma & spitefulness in creating 3.5 million dole queues. John Major quietly got on with nothing, apart from getting on Ewina Curry. Any political thing his tenure achieved (primarily Black Wednesday's ignominous exit from the ERM and Back to Basics/sleaze) was solely down to the tory big beasts over whom he exercised no control whatsoever.

To summarise the track record of Blair solely by his education "failures" is very one-eyed (and that monocularity suffering from severe myopia) - the Good Friday agreement, minimum wage, devolution, Bank of England independance over interest rate setting, fox hunting ban, Afghanistan & Iraq wars at least deserve recognition if not praise, all under the suffocating yoke of Brown's overweening ego and ambition. Best Prime minister John Major? Aren't you well versed with the old song "Always leave them laughing when you say goodbye".

It was a necessarily quirky and personal resume. To have produced something more academic and analytical would have resulted in a 10,000-word essay, for which NSC isn't the place.

Re Blair: Brown's privatisation of the Bank of England caused untold economic damage. I was pro-Iraq, because I thought: "My Government wouldn't like to me." But it did. I do wonder about the usefulness of Afghanistan after so many deaths and so little real progress. (A 10-year-old there is being threatened with being stoned to death because she accused a neighbour of raping her.) I was and am against the fox-hunting ban (but let's not go there - see earlier threads). Yes, the Good Friday Agreement, but the foundations for it were laid by Major, who also prevented us from going too deeply into Europe. He left the country in its best financial shape for decades. As to sleaze - come on, all parties and Governments have their naughty moments.

 

[HovaGirl]

Staggering to think that John Major was PM for 7 years! All I remember is his Spitting Image!

Best PM in my lifetime, Howard Wilson.

Who? !!!

 

[Dick Head]

A lot of old gits on NSC this morning...

Robert Walpole.

 

[Diego Napier]

It was a necessarily quirky and personal resume. To have produced something more academic and analytical would have resulted in a 10,000-word essay, for which NSC isn't the place.

Re Blair: Brown's privatisation of the Bank of England caused untold economic damage. I was pro-Iraq, because I thought: "My Government wouldn't like to me." But it did. I do wonder about the usefulness of Afghanistan after so many deaths and so little real progress. (A 10-year-old there is being threatened with being stoned to death because she accused a neighbour of raping her.) I was and am against the fox-hunting ban (but let's not go there - see earlier threads). Yes, the Good Friday Agreement, but the foundations for it were laid by Major, who also prevented us from going too deeply into Europe. He left the country in its best financial shape for decades. As to sleaze - come on, all parties and Governments have their naughty moments.

Oh dear, what a literal thing you are. I see there's only black & white in your world; 5000 words would have sufficed!

I'm rather taken back by your 48 hour rejoinder, I wasn't really eliciting your thoughts about the significant events you overlooked during Blair's premiership.

Your continued defence of the grey man is charming however, it was his ineffectiveness and inability to control his cabinet (let alone world events) that led to the serendipitously happy financial state he bequethed to the nation.

As to sleaze I agree but there are degrees & limits. Edwina Curry for God sake!

 

[Leighgull]

Prime Ministers during my lifetime:
Sir Winston Churchill (1951-1955)
Sir Anthony Eden (1955-1957)
Harold McMillan (1957-1963)
Sir Alec Douglas-Home (1963-1964)
Harold Wilson(1964-1970 and 1974-1976)
Edward Heath (1970-1974)
James Callaghan (1976-1979)
Margaret Thatcher (1979-1990)
John Major (1990-1997)
Tony Blair (1997-2007)
Gordon Brown (2007-2010)
David Cameron (2010-)

I remember the State funeral of Churchill but the first PM I was aware of was Harold Wilson, who was seen as a witty, modern, working-class PM, as opposed to the old- school aristos, Home and Eden. Wilson liked The Beatles and the "white heat" of technology and presided over the Swinging Sixties. He was the right PM at the right time. At school, we held our own General Election in 1964, and Wilson won. We didn't know it then, but he was a crafty manipulator of the soundbite and networking.

Heath was a toothy twonk who liked sailing and the organ, both hobbies as boring as his tenure of No 10. He was responsible for the 3-day week and a complete lightweight who subsequently sulked his way through Thatcher's tenure.

Callaghan was seen as another lightweight, or at least, that's how I saw him. I was too involved with my new boyfriend, and my wedding and baby to be bothered with anything he did. But I remember the strikes, the strikes, and some more strikes. Crisis? What crisis? he asked.

Thatcher made a real impact. She made necessary changes, because the country did have to be hauled into the 20th century. Wilson had paved the way, but he overspent, leaving debts Callaghan couldn't cope with, which Thatcher managed to reduce. On the other hand, she sold off too many national assets, from State-owned utilities to Council Houses. She failed to compromise with the unions, though the unions also failed to compromise with her. But this left a manufacturing void, which she made no effort to fill, except by encouraging banks and insurance companies to make money out of our money, with little in return. Her monetarism opened the doors to too many foreign countries who rushed to buy too many of our assets, which should have remained British-owned, if not State-owned. On Europe, she was right, and it destroyed her. In fact, at the time, her stance on Europe was the only thing where I was actually in agreement with her.

John Major quietly got on with things, but I always had a sneaking admiration for him. A working-class Brixton boy without a formal higher education, he was the embodiment of the American ideal, that anybody can become Prime Minister, which Thatcher had encouraged and developed. He left a vibrant economy for the next Labour Government to inherit, and destroy.

Tony Blair was attractive, but a disaster. He acted his way through his No 10 years, saying the right things at the right time, but often doing the wrong things at the wrong time. While the Heath Government dug in to the destruction of the British Education system, Blair continued it, by letting everybody pass their exams and go to university, but to achieve this, the whole system had to be dumbed down. Now, there is so much ignorance around, it is terrifyingly sad, yet an entire generation thinks they've had the best education, ever. When they mature, they will realise just how little they really know. The ten years of education under Blair has produced a mixed generation of unemployable feral youth and youngsters who expect high wages and are unprepared to start at the bottom of the career ladder.

Cameron was an effective Opposition Leader, but has proved impotent as a Prime Minister, and I lay that at the door of the highly unintelligent Clegg and Cameron's lack of conviction. The Millibands are career Marxists, trained from birth to be politicians and receive high office, which means they will say whatever the Left-Wing wants to hear in order to secure power. The reality of this was demonstrated when one brother betrayed the other, more politically-talented, brother and we are left with a little baby as our next prospective PM. If I am worried about what has gone on before, then it is nothing to what will happen if Ed Milliband becomes the next PM.

The best Prime Minister in my lifetime? Probably John Major.

By God. That is lucid, insightful, fair and generous. You must have remembered your medication today.

*edit* I just noticed your favourite was John Major. He had an affair with Edwina Currie ffs. That's how godawful he was as a man

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Who was a better Prime Minister than Margaret Thatcher in your lifetime - if an

I know that. But it's what he is remembered for.

If you know he did not say that, it's rather disingenuous of you to state, 'Crisis? What crisis? he asked.'

Interesting use of smoke and mirrors to discredit someone on the basis of words a hostile newspaper has put into the politician's mouth rather than what he actually said.