Who is the worst type of Socialist ?

[Superphil]

Socialists

Oh, and Blair, if indeed he ever was a socialist.

 

[The Spanish]

That it won't be as useful as, say, an Irish passport. I value the absolute freedom of movement angle it provides. And it's disappointing I'm now having to pursue other angles to maintain this. At the end of the day I'm British and I'd like my nationality to afford me the same benefits as the rest of Europe.

My passport has the word Ireland on the front and it's a British one.

If you think leaving the EU means your British passport is significantly devalued as a travel document and means a lifetime of visa hassle then you would have a meltdown if you had one of most of the non-first worlds instead.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

My passport has the word Ireland on the front and it's a British one.

If you think leaving the EU means your British passport is significantly devalued as a travel document and means a lifetime of visa hassle then you would have a meltdown if you had one of most of the non-first worlds instead.

I'm not saying it will be devalued as a travel document....in fact this is my point as this is all it will be. At the moment it's much much more.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Is it the type who bang on about how awful tories are then supported and voted in an obviously incompetent loon to lead the Labour party .... virtually guaranteeing Tory government for the forseeable future?

 

[heathgate]

For balance with the worst Tory thread

Poll to follow

Those champagne socialists.... 'shared wealth'.. my arse... they sit there wedged up .. telling all and sundry that wealth is the root of all evil......

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[GT49er]

Are we having a worst sort of Liberal thread too?

That would be impossible to define!

 

[Live by the sea]

Diane Abott, Jeremy Corbin and the like. The twisted mindset that blames Britain, America and Israel for the current Islamist threat to civilised people.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Those who what to return to the economics of the 70s, knowingly or unknowingly. And those who long for leadership style and content of michael foot

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

What is a socialist though ? Everyone's in the middle these days - I'd put myself as caught between Green and Lib Dem hell if I can be bothered to vote at all.

This indeed. I would describe myself as a "natural labour voter, but would not consider myself a socialist, strictly speaking. I have voted tactically, and the present fiasco has almost convinced me to join the Lib-Dems. I would describe myself as a social-democrat

 

[BLOCK F]

I find Prosecco too sweet. I do like some of the English sparkling wines though. The can be very good.

Love some of the English sparklers, but they can be a bit pricey.

 

[jakarta]

I'm not a Labour supporter but I DO want decent opposition to the Government, at the moment as and when it happens its coming from the Tory back benches.

ICM’s regular poll for the Guardian is out today and has topline figures of CON 43%(-2), LAB 25%(-1), LDEM 11%(+2), UKIP 11%(+1), GRN 4%(nc). The 25% for Labour equals the lowest in the ICM/Guardian series of polls, previously reached during the nadir of Gordon Brown’s government in 2009

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

No option for all of them.......

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Genuine question - What do you think will change? Will you not be able to enter countries that you can at the moment? Will you not be able to stay in countries for as long as you can now?

For sure you will still be able to enter countries. But at the moment a British passport gives you a hell of a lot more including total and absolute freedom to not just travel but to live, work and conduct business. These latter three points will change. And the minute they change, the minute some extra paper work is put in place a British person will automatically be disadvantaged. To what degree we do not know but some red-tape will always be worse than none. Here's two examples.

A friend owns a business which does stuff with search engine optimisation. His business is small but employs young people from numerous disciplines. He doesn't need the best of the best, just hard working, trustworthy and reliable people who can speak English and can code.....and there are many he can choose from within Berlin. He only recruits EU people as they don't need any paper work whatsoever....just a purple passport. If the Brexit deal means there's an additional administrative burden for him to recruit a Brit he won't bother. It's awkward to employ Americans and Aus so he doesn't. I've also heard the same from a cafe owner. Why would they? These are not big corporations...just small businesses trying to make their way.

At the other end of the employment scale, what I would call "recognised professions" and where businesses do want the best I'm aware of non-EU citizens (the two I know are US and Aus) getting a job and as theyre high-flying professionals they have all the visa stuff done for them. But, equally I hear of them having a stressful time when working on fixed employment contracts (as many foreign based jobs seem to be) as their visa is linked to the job. If they do not have their contract renewed they have 30 days to leave. EU citizens just look for another job without any worry about visa expiration and they didn't need a visa in the first place

Personally, I really and truly value the freedom, choice and opportunity a British passport currently presents. If I get bored with Berlin I like the fact you or I can travel to anyone of 26 countries tomorrow and work from there. I really is no different than moving from Brighton to say London. Choice, freedom and opportunity are important to me...and I do not see how you or I will be able to do this after we leave as the 4 freedoms cannot exist in their current form.

 

[The Spanish]

For sure you will still be able to enter countries. But at the moment a British passport gives you a hell of a lot more including total and absolute freedom to not just travel but to live, work and conduct business. These latter three points will change. And the minute they change, the minute some extra paper work is put in place a British person will automatically be disadvantaged. To what degree we do not know but some red-tape will always be worse than none. Here's two examples.

A friend owns a business which does stuff with search engine optimisation. His business is small but employs young people from numerous disciplines. He doesn't need the best of the best, just hard working, trustworthy and reliable people who can speak English and can code.....and there are many he can choose from within Berlin. He only recruits EU people as they don't need any paper work whatsoever....just a purple passport. If the Brexit deal means there's an additional administrative burden for him to recruit a Brit he won't bother. It's awkward to employ Americans and Aus so he doesn't. I've also heard the same from a cafe owner. Why would they? These are not big corporations...just small businesses trying to make their way.

At the other end of the employment scale, what I would call "recognised professions" and where businesses do want the best I'm aware of non-EU citizens (the two I know are US and Aus) getting a job and as theyre high-flying professionals they have all the visa stuff done for them. But, equally I hear of them having a stressful time when working on fixed employment contracts (as many foreign based jobs seem to be) as their visa is linked to the job. If they do not have their contract renewed they have 30 days to leave. EU citizens just look for another job without any worry about visa expiration and they didn't need a visa in the first place

Personally, I really and truly value the freedom, choice and opportunity a British passport currently presents. If I get bored with Berlin I like the fact I can travel to anyone of 26 countries tomorrow and operate my work from there. I really is no different than moving from Brighton to say London. Choice, freedom and opportunity are important to me...and I do not see how you or I will be able to do this after we leave as the 4 freedoms cannot exist in their current form.

Out of the 26 where would you realistically go? New York, Singapore etc are full of ex pats who have managed to negotiate the mind boggling red tape involved in getting to work there. It's pretty standard stuff, this freedom of movement is great for the unskilled or lower skilled but it's absence will be no real barrier to most brits. If most British professionals want to work in Germany or France on work visas it wouldn't be difficult, I feel this is a massive red herring and based more on ideology than the practicalities.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Out of the 26 where would you realistically go? New York, Singapore etc are full of ex pats who have managed to negotiate the mind boggling red tape involved in getting to work there. It's pretty standard stuff, this freedom of movement is great for the unskilled or lower skilled but no real barrier to many. If most British professionals want to work in Germany or France it wouldn't be difficult, I feel this is a massive red herring and based more on ideology than the practicalities.

I've discussed this in length many times before, in the main thread, so I don't really have inclination or energy to go through it again I'm afraid . Put simply I like the idea that it gives greater opportunity to lesser skilled or unskilled people who might want to just try something different for a while. I would not be easy for me to find work in a bar in NYC. I could easily find it in the EU.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Out of the 26 where would you realistically go?

Barcelona, Ibiza, Paris were previous considerations which I still like the idea of.

 

[Hampster Gull]

For sure you will still be able to enter countries. But at the moment a British passport gives you a hell of a lot more including total and absolute freedom to not just travel but to live, work and conduct business. These latter three points will change. And the minute they change, the minute some extra paper work is put in place a British person will automatically be disadvantaged. To what degree we do not know but some red-tape will always be worse than none. Here's two examples.

A friend owns a business which does stuff with search engine optimisation. His business is small but employs young people from numerous disciplines. He doesn't need the best of the best, just hard working, trustworthy and reliable people who can speak English and can code.....and there are many he can choose from within Berlin. He only recruits EU people as they don't need any paper work whatsoever....just a purple passport. If the Brexit deal means there's an additional administrative burden for him to recruit a Brit he won't bother. It's awkward to employ Americans and Aus so he doesn't. I've also heard the same from a cafe owner. Why would they? These are not big corporations...just small businesses trying to make their way.

At the other end of the employment scale, what I would call "recognised professions" and where businesses do want the best I'm aware of non-EU citizens (the two I know are US and Aus) getting a job and as theyre high-flying professionals they have all the visa stuff done for them. But, equally I hear of them having a stressful time when working on fixed employment contracts (as many foreign based jobs seem to be) as their visa is linked to the job. If they do not have their contract renewed they have 30 days to leave. EU citizens just look for another job without any worry about visa expiration and they didn't need a visa in the first place

Personally, I really and truly value the freedom, choice and opportunity a British passport currently presents. If I get bored with Berlin I like the fact you or I can travel to anyone of 26 countries tomorrow and work from there. I really is no different than moving from Brighton to say London. Choice, freedom and opportunity are important to me...and I do not see how you or I will be able to do this after we leave as the 4 freedoms cannot exist in their current form.

Indeed. i work for a large company, with one or two exceptions we don't employ people who we have to sponsor for a visa, just too difficult. This means the Aussie and Kiwi temps, who are highly skilled and great team players, have to leave after a while. There will be many european companies who have the same approach which will impact Brits going foward.

 

[Albion my Albion]

What is a socialist though ? Everyone's in the middle these days - I'd put myself as caught between Green and Lib Dem hell if I can be bothered to vote at all.

Exactly why do you feel you have fallen into voter apathy?