Who does Phil Gartside think he is?

[Pavilionaire]

Whether or not Celtic or Rangers join, the point is the season is bloated by European matches.

Scrapping the League Cup is not an option because for most Prem clubs this is their only realistic chance of a trophy. What I don't understand is the 2nd tier of the Prem fight tooth and nail for a European place yet field weakened teams in the UEFA Cup if those matches compromise a Prem fixture.

Despite the fact that the Top 4 has been nailed on for the past decade and they've also cleaned up with the FA Cup,it is still conceivable for 40-odd clubs outside the Prem - including ourselves - to break into the elite division.

I think some sort of realignment and integration of the domestic leagues MIGHT work were it not for the overly-bloated Champions and Europa League schedules. Ironically, Liverpool have experienced fixture congestion this season and are looking f***ed domestically and abroad, while the 2 clubs free of the constraint of Europe - City and Spurs - have leapfrogged them.

 

[fatbadger]

My belief is that Rangers and Celtic would be bottom 1/2 of the Championship. I live here and see the regular dross that is served up in the SPL.

Precisely - the dross that is served up in the SPL. But the OF Scum cannot attract any top players when they have 3 or four games a season against the likes of Accies on offer. Now, their income and support and the opportunity to play in the Premiershite ... that's a different kettle of fish. Rantic would easily be top half EPL1 contenders.

The only way I could possibly contemplate supporting the Gartside plan would be under these conditions:
1. promotion/relegation between the league and EPL2 remain as they currently are, with no new self-serving rules / hoops for the promoted clubs to jump through;
2. the OF are banned from entering 2nd XIs in Scottish competitions - go completely or stay;
3. the distribution of the EPL's money to the league is significantly higher than at present;
4. the EPL allows terracing.

But as there will be new rules imposed on promoted sides, and the whole idea is to retain an even greater share of money in the top tier, it looks like I will never support this idea. Gartside is an arse, and a third-rate one at that.

 

[Knotty]

Point One - Gartside is only suggesting what is best for his club. Why should he not try everything he can to preserve their status? I don't blame him for saying it, but...

Point Two - I disagree completely with everything he says.

 

[beorhthelm]

Martin Samuel (imo, the best football journalist around) points out how this wouldn't work for Bolton.

i like Samuels appraisal of how the franchises might be selected in this hypothetical new league, though i think he may be missing another huge area, Sussex and Kent where our shiny new stadium and cosmopolitan image might give us a berth over one of the other finge clubs (Fulham, Charlton, Pompey and Swansea have weak cases on geography imo).

But what i still fail to understand is why Ranger+Celtic would actually increase interest and TV money? if they did, wouldnt the SPL be getting more money, rigging the deal so 1st and 2nd got the lions share of a bigger pot?

 

[KneeOn]

This isn't ever going to happen. Ever never ever.

Surely SURELY the local FA's will have a vote and i'll be damned if its not veto'd by a simple majority. If this happens, what you do, is you tell teh footballers that this is now a matter of principles, and you restructure without tv, or appeal to the Beeb/Itv to show matches. Break away from the FA... Fan boycott of all games.

 

[Marc]

I would welcome them both into the ENGLISH football league, cant see the huge fuss personally. Not sure on the new two-tier league though as that would seperate sky sports beloved BIG FOUR from the others by an even greater margin. stick them in the championship and have done with it

 

[DerbyGull]

This would f*** up the whole structure of the football league. The best thing about english football today imho is the 3 leagues below the prem. f*** OFF GARTSIDE YOU WANKER
p.s. I'm talking about the 2 tier system btw

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

After the antics of their fans (Rangers again in Europe last week, Manchester last year; Celtic fans at the weekend) does the English need or want either of this lot?

Personally I think not.

Not only would a two tier Premier league with no relegation from the '2nd Division' be the beginning of the end of the rest of the Football Leage clubs it would be the end of the Scottish Leagues too.

 

[fatbadger]

it would be the end of the Scottish Leagues too.

Well, for a start, the supposed 'trickle-down' effect from the OF is miniscule, so not much would be lost there. Secondly, a significant number of current OF fans would start following their local team instead, for a number of reasons (including, but not limited to, the inevitably vastly increased ticket prices at Parkhead and Ibrox, and because so many of them don't want to support their team in an English league). And thirdly, the likes of Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc would play regular European football while the next tier - Dundee Utd, Motherwell etc - would get more chances to play European football.

The OF leaving Scottish football would be to everyone's benefit.

FO OF, I say.

 

[Rowdey]

Well, if you read the bbc sport website,it says PG is quite an important man in this..
Be aware..be very aware..

"And BBC Sport's Dan Roan said the proposals would represent a "radical overhaul" of the pyramid structure.

"Gartside is one of the most powerful men in the English game," he told BBC Radio 5 live.

"He's one of the longest-serving chairmen in the Premier League, a man who sits on the FA board, one of just three professional representatives on the FA board, so I think it's fair to say that it's a serious proposal and deserves to be listened to." "

 

[fatbadger]

But what i still fail to understand is why Ranger+Celtic would actually increase interest and TV money?

Are you serious? Much as I hate them, I have to admit they are both huge clubs. At the very least it should be pointed out that both command support all around the world (particularly Celtic), which the moneymen will love. It should also be pointed out that whereas the SPL can't get a lot of money on the promise of showing Celtic v Kilmarnock, for instance, the EPL would attract interest for Celtic v Liverpool, for example. That's a far bigger game than most current English top tier games.

 

[beorhthelm]

Are you serious? ... It should also be pointed out that whereas the SPL can't get a lot of money on the promise of showing Celtic v Kilmarnock, for instance, the EPL would attract interest for Celtic v Liverpool, for example. That's a far bigger game than most current English top tier games.

completely, as i say, why can' t they get the money now if its such a big draw. yes, Celtic Vs Liverpool sounds great... how about Reading Vs Celtic? not much better than Kilmarnock for the neutrals really. and theres another thing, do the Celtic fans want to be a part of this grand vision (accepting the owner might)? even the Rangers fans are still patriotic towards Scotland (within the UK) and they might have somthing to say about it.

Are they, Rangers and Celtic, prepared to leave the leave the Scottish FA, join the FA, and face the very realisitc probibilty of not being in Champions League for the next ten years as they compete with Villa, Spurs, Man City, Everton, <insert other form team each season> for one of the top 4/5 spots? does even the theoretical improvment of cash from the two tier Premier League going to cover the loss from CL?

 

[Pavilionaire]

The bottom line is that most football fans don't support a Prem side and do pay to see a Football League or non-league side. Every one of those fans aspires to play in a higher division and almost half of the 92 have played in the Prem at some stage. This will be the reason why a 'franchise-style' system or closed shop will never be introduced.

Just look at some of the teams who've been in the Prem:

Barnsley
Bradford
Burnley
Hull
Oldham
Reading
Swindon
Watford
Wigan
Wimbledon

Every year it seems a 'minnow' makes the grade, giving clubs like the Albion real hope that Prem football IS a possibility.

 

[ofco8]

Further to Martin Samuels original list of suggested PL1 & 2 clubs it is all very hit and miss.
Brighton & Hove are the 15th largest city in England, with a new stadium on way. Bigger than Portsmouth, Southampton, Ipswich, Norwich, Preston, Blackpool etc.. Therefore we should be automatic choice.
However, of course, as we have been shit for past 20 odd years are not considered worthy. That is why promtion and relegation must be included to allow for any clubs rise and fall in fortune.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

The whole point of this plan is to make it a closed shop, to guarantee the crapper clubs like Bolton security from relegation, therefore to argue Rangers & Celtic would be welcome so long as a merit based promotion existed rather misses the point.

And maybe Celtic v Man United would appear tasty on paper, but we'd soon get bored with the same old Sky hype, just like we do with wall to wall Chelsea etc right now. It'll just be another game. It's 100% about making more money for Bolton & Gartside, and nothing to do with football.

 

[Bwian]

If 'they' ever let the sweaties into English Football, I hope they insist on them starting in one of the Blue Square leagues like AFC Wimbledon, Accrington Stanley and countless other clubs aspiring to 'top flight' football.

Gartside can take his plans, roll them up and shove them up his backside. If it ever comes about I hope his tinpot club find themselves on the outside looking on enviously as we take their place.

 

[clapham_gull]

It will happen one day, and the reason why is SKY.

Sky are not to blame, they don't set the price. It's the greedy clubs. They moan all the time that that Sky don't pay them enough, even though that channel has been responsible or making it the most marketable league on the planet.

Put it this way, Man United could earn as much in three matches as they do a whole season with Sky, if they sold the match themselves. Online worldwide rights are potentially massive alone.

Rangers into the league is a red herring, that may or may not enable Bolton to earn a bit more cash.

What the big clubs really want (not Bolton) is a European League, which won't involve Bolton.

All the Bolton Chairman is doing is throwing in an idea that may help them to keep up at the top. It's a red herring and it won't happen.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

If 'they' ever let the sweaties into English Football, I hope they insist on them starting in one of the Blue Square leagues like AFC Wimbledon, Accrington Stanley and countless other clubs aspiring to 'top flight' football.

Indeed, thats what should happen, but of course it won't. But if they were parachuted straight into the premier league, countless other sides would probably take the premier league to court and may well be successful. Sooo, the only way around it is for complete breakaway.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Bwian,Blue square ? They start at the very bottom and if that means Division 3 of Northern counties league so be it. End of. (plus i am against it anyway)

 

[Tooting Gull]

Agree totally with Was not Was's assessment - and fears. We have had this discussion on here even pre-Gartside comparing the situation to rugby union, where you have people like Rob Andrew who were totally comfortable defending 'no relegation and promotion'.

Rangers/Celtic is a sideshow, and the bottom line is financially they need us a lot more than we need them right now.

In an ideal world I'd like to see them in the PL, but I don't see how it can happen without opening bitter rifts that would never be healed as English clubs were sacrificed for them, possibly never to return. And it isn't the main issue.

The problem is this. You would hope that a lot of Football League clubs would be against this - but they may not get the chance to vote it down. If 18 of the biggest were tapped up to resign from the FL and be guaranteed a place in PL 2, they would probably do it. Done deal, fait accompli, FL powerless.