[Politics] Which gender do you most identify with?

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You mean, like the Scots and the Irish insisting that they are Scots or Irish - and openly celebrating their identity?

You know the difference between ethnicity and nationality, right?

It's a bit like the difference between biological sex and gender.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

Ah, so many to offend! We live in intercestuous times.

 

[Eeyore]

Happy to be a just a regular dude

Is that a gender ? Only I'm not sure what a regular dude is, apart from the biological form.

 

[GT49er]

You know the difference between ethnicity and nationality, right?

To a large number of people - probably a majority - the are the same thing. Ethnically Scottish, nationally Scottish, identify as Scottish. Ditto Irish. Some clever people think it shouldn't be like that - but unfortunately for them it is!

 

[jessiejames]

Not really into all this crap, as far as i know ur either male (born with a penis) or female ( born with a virgina), can someine explain what CIS is. Also it would help having a description as to what they all mean.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

To a large number of people - probably a majority - the are the same thing. Ethnically Scottish, nationally Scottish, identify as Scottish. Ditto Irish. Some clever people think it shouldn't be like that - but unfortunately for them it is!

So Ian Wright is not English? He is definitely not of the same ethnicity as me, and I suspect you. But he is certainly of the same nationality. What nationality might you imagine that may be I wonder?

I think you are simply wrong in your thinking on this.

 

[smillie's garden]

Not really into all this crap, as far as i know ur either male (born with a penis) or female ( born with a virgina), can someine explain what CIS is. Also it would help having a description as to what they all mean.

Not sure what on Earth that is. Possibly something lusted over by certain older fellas for millennia ?

 

[chickens]

I identify as male, I understand what cis means, and like some others here I probably couldn’t identify exactly what every option on the poll list is supposed to represent from a gender perspective. I don’t follow the thinking that cis is an insult, it’s there for those who want to use it, but I don’t use it myself.

A couple of years ago my daughter, just into secondary school and influenced by all the talk of multiple genders and the conversations being had at school, decided that she wished to be known by a different name, and no longer identified as female.

She told us what she wanted to be called and what her pronouns were, her mother and I obediently (with the occasional inadvertent slip at the start) called her by her new name. It wasn’t flawless, we messed up the pronouns on a regular basis at the start, but just as we were getting comfortable using the different name and pronouns, my daughter declared that she had decided to revert to her birth name and gender.

We didn’t discuss reasons at the time, but in a late night conversation a few weeks later my daughter told me that she had hoped that the change would act as a reset, as a way of reinventing herself and being a new person, but that we had still known who she was, and her school friends had still known who she was, and that she felt like she was still her and wasn’t really treated any differently at school. Her friends supported her and some other kids made jokes about it.

What’s important from my perspective is that she was given the space, time and support to try something. To me it’s an important lesson to learn that whatever you call yourself, wherever you move to, regardless of the descriptors you use to describe yourself, you will still be you. In my experience, you have to work that out for yourself, it’s not something you can be told and accept.

My honest feelings on all of this, are that the people who need this, need it. The rest of us can get along fine without bothering too much about it. I’ll always try to use the right pronouns as this is basic politeness, but I’m awful at names, so I do find custom pronouns pose an additional challenge. Vive la difference etc and best wishes to all, except for those who identify as Crystal Palace fans.



TLDR: - you dodged a bullet there.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

I identify as male, I understand what cis means, and like some others here I probably couldn’t identify exactly what every option on the poll list is supposed to represent from a gender perspective. I don’t follow the thinking that cis is an insult, it’s there for those who want to use it, but I don’t use it myself.

A couple of years ago my daughter, just into secondary school and influenced by all the talk of multiple genders and the conversations being had at school, decided that she wished to be known by a different name, and no longer identified as female.

She told us what she wanted to be called and what her pronouns were, her mother and I obediently (with the occasional inadvertent slip at the start) called her by her new name. It wasn’t flawless, we messed up the pronouns on a regular basis at the start, but just as we were getting comfortable using the different name and pronouns, my daughter declared that she had decided to revert to her birth name and gender.

We didn’t discuss reasons at the time, but in a late night conversation a few weeks later my daughter told me that she had hoped that the change would act as a reset, as a way of reinventing herself and being a new person, but that we had still known who she was, and her school friends had still known who she was, and that she felt like she was still her and wasn’t really treated any differently at school. Her friends supported her and some other kids made jokes about it.

What’s important from my perspective is that she was given the space, time and support to try something. To me it’s an important lesson to learn that whatever you call yourself, wherever you move to, regardless of the descriptors you use to describe yourself, you will still be you. In my experience, you have to work that out for yourself, it’s not something you can be told and accept.

My honest feelings on all of this, are that the people who need this, need it. The rest of us can get along fine without bothering too much about it. I’ll always try to use the right pronouns as this is basic politeness, but I’m awful at names, so I do find custom pronouns pose an additional challenge. Vive la difference etc and best wishes to all, except for those who identify as Crystal Palace fans.



TLDR: - you dodged a bullet there.

A good advert for taking your time in making such changes permanent and being worldly enough to make the choice.

 

[jessiejames]

Not sure what on Earth that is. Possibly something lusted over by certain older fellas for millennia ?

Something thats not been touched

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Only four people have responded to this poll, identifying as women.

The rest of them, I suspect, anticipating a Farrage* of blokes, all declaring they know what's what, wisely decided to jog on.

Either that or NSC is only 3.3% female.

I wonder which is correct?

We probably need a poll to find out.

*Collective noun for men braying about their imaginary virtues

 

[GT49er]

So Ian Wright is not English? He is definitely not of the same ethnicity as me, and I suspect you. But he is certainly of the same nationality. What nationality might you imagine that may be I wonder?

I think you are simply wrong in your thinking on this.

Of course he's English. Stupid question. A majority of the English are English by ethnicity AND English by nationality (the Normans came here more than a thousand years ago and are merged into the English/British ethnicity - the Vikings and the Angles, Saxons and Jutes arrived even earlier). Later arrivals have - and will - become part of the ethnic mix as well as the nationality.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

True, but if it's important to someone I'd like to try to understand

That’s a fair comment. On reflection I think my post was a bit flippant. Of course it’s good to try and understand other people. But failing that, just be respectful.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I identify as male, I understand what cis means, and like some others here I probably couldn’t identify exactly what every option on the poll list is supposed to represent from a gender perspective. I don’t follow the thinking that cis is an insult, it’s there for those who want to use it, but I don’t use it myself.

A couple of years ago my daughter, just into secondary school and influenced by all the talk of multiple genders and the conversations being had at school, decided that she wished to be known by a different name, and no longer identified as female.

She told us what she wanted to be called and what her pronouns were, her mother and I obediently (with the occasional inadvertent slip at the start) called her by her new name. It wasn’t flawless, we messed up the pronouns on a regular basis at the start, but just as we were getting comfortable using the different name and pronouns, my daughter declared that she had decided to revert to her birth name and gender.

We didn’t discuss reasons at the time, but in a late night conversation a few weeks later my daughter told me that she had hoped that the change would act as a reset, as a way of reinventing herself and being a new person, but that we had still known who she was, and her school friends had still known who she was, and that she felt like she was still her and wasn’t really treated any differently at school. Her friends supported her and some other kids made jokes about it.

What’s important from my perspective is that she was given the space, time and support to try something. To me it’s an important lesson to learn that whatever you call yourself, wherever you move to, regardless of the descriptors you use to describe yourself, you will still be you. In my experience, you have to work that out for yourself, it’s not something you can be told and accept.

My honest feelings on all of this, are that the people who need this, need it. The rest of us can get along fine without bothering too much about it. I’ll always try to use the right pronouns as this is basic politeness, but I’m awful at names, so I do find custom pronouns pose an additional challenge. Vive la difference etc and best wishes to all, except for those who identify as Crystal Palace fans.



TLDR: - you dodged a bullet there.

Superb post.

I do find it odd that people, some who are NSC deep lurkers, feel the need to comment negatively or suspiciously-stridently, or superciliously, about gender debate, as if it should be stamped on, when there are so many real threats to their lifestyle to contend with and emote about that they seem happy to ignore (on NSC). Triggered? How sad.

So, sorry @Mustafa II this thread is little better than Sun clickbait about the latest sex/immigrant/muslim bolleaux.

I will now go into 'oh goody, another thread' mode, and am beginning to regret somewhat my attempts to dissuade Mustafa the original from flouncing last time . . . . .

FFS

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Of course he's English. Stupid question. A majority of the English are English by ethnicity AND English by nationality (the Normans came here more than a thousand years ago and are merged into the English/British ethnicity - the Vikings and the Angles, Saxons and Jutes arrived even earlier). Later arrivals have - and will - become part of the ethnic mix as well as the nationality.

Apologies, I may have become confused

One of us has, anyway. You are far too kindly and sensible to warrant my going back over who said what so I'll get off whatever horse I may have clambered upon. A pygmy pony, perhaps

And now, a musical interlude.

 

[Mustafa II]

Superb post.

I do find it odd that people, some who are NSC deep lurkers, feel the need to comment negatively or suspiciously-stridently, or superciliously, about gender debate, as if it should be stamped on, when there are so many real threats to their lifestyle to contend with and emote about that they seem happy to ignore (on NSC). Triggered? How sad.

So, sorry @Mustafa II this thread is little better than Sun clickbait about the latest sex/immigrant/muslim bolleaux.

I will now go into 'oh goody, another thread' mode, and am beginning to regret somewhat my attempts to dissuade Mustafa the original from flouncing last time . . . . .

FFS

Has it not increased awareness amongst a demographic who mostly would otherwise have had no idea about it?

Yes, yes it has.

 

[Weststander]

Rudyard lucked out by a century. This would’ve become incredibly complicated to keep everyone happy.

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

 

[worthingweird]

What a load of bollox

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Has it not increased awareness amongst a demographic who mostly would otherwise have had no idea about it?

Yes, yes it has.

Maybe.

I'm pleased to say that the deluge of bile that would have appeared on the thread 10 and maybe only 5 years ago has largely not manifested.

So, yeah, maybe you're right. The fact that only 75% are sort of taking the piss is a step in the right direction. Try again in 5 years and it may have dropped to 50%

That said, I was expecting some sort of executive summary from the OP, explaining what we have learned today. Will you be providing that at some point?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Of course he's English. Stupid question. A majority of the English are English by ethnicity AND English by nationality (the Normans came here more than a thousand years ago and are merged into the English/British ethnicity - the Vikings and the Angles, Saxons and Jutes arrived even earlier). Later arrivals have - and will - become part of the ethnic mix as well as the nationality.

Oh yes I remember now. Englishness is not an ethnicity. 'white British' is an ethnicity (of sorts) whereas English (of whatever ethnicity) can be a nationality. And only the latter counts in football, the Olympics and whether you are entitled to vote.

It has been emotional.