[Politics] Where's Jeremy Corbyn

[Goldstone1976]

I've only become of the very useful word in the last year. It's suddenly in fashion.

A bit like 'redapted' which was mentioned alot in the parliamentary expenses scandal.

Did you meant to type “redacted”?

 

[Weststander]

Did you meant to type “redacted”?

Yes, sorry.

I've now edited my post.

 

[Brighton Mod]

I assume you were equally as outraged when Sajid Javid resorted to slurring hundreds of Jewish Labour Party members as neo-Nazis just days after the whole anti-Semitism furore or when the Tories revenge outed a gay person against their will, and then May issued a statement of confidence in the perpetrator.

No, its not a points scoring exercise, its about Corbyns short comings which are now being laid bare, he does not have the qualities to be a leader, as has been ably demonstrated by his inability to respond publicly this week. Perhaps you should address my post and not introduce other elements that deflect from the contemporary issues of Corbyns failure and then our conversation can continue.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Don’t vote for him then. (Although, I very much doubt you would have done, even if he had been appearing on mainstream media,)

I don't need anyones advice on who to vote for and for your information and to be crystal clear, unlike Corbyn, I believe that all politicians are lying, cheating, self serving scum bags. Your suppositions on who I would vote for are again off target and based on what?

 

[lawros left foot]

I don't need anyones advice on who to vote for and for your information and to be crystal clear, unlike Corbyn, I believe that all politicians are lying, cheating, self serving scum bags. Your suppositions on who I would vote for are again off target and based on what?

Well, your opening post on this thread, or your numerous anti Corbyn posts on other threads. We get it , you don’t like the man.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

No, its not a points scoring exercise, its about Corbyns short comings which are now being laid bare, he does not have the qualities to be a leader, as has been ably demonstrated by his inability to respond publicly this week. Perhaps you should address my post and not introduce other elements that deflect from the contemporary issues of Corbyns failure and then our conversation can continue.

I am merely trying to ascertain whether you genuinely care about about anti-semitism and the moral integrity of politicians and the parties they represent or whether you just want to have a moan about Corbyn. If it is the former, it would be fair to assume my previous comments re The Tories would also cause you outrage. If not, you are a massive hypocrite.

And I have addressed your post, by point out you were wrong re Corbyn responding to anti-semitsm (unlike May and comments made by Jarvid) and Russia.

 

[Weststander]

No, its not a points scoring exercise, its about Corbyns short comings which are now being laid bare, he does not have the qualities to be a leader, as has been ably demonstrated by his inability to respond publicly this week. Perhaps you should address my post and not introduce other elements that deflect from the contemporary issues of Corbyns failure and then our conversation can continue.

I don't think it's about his lack of leadership.

Instead, I believe he cannot master the impossible balancing act of:
1. Pretending he's a reformed just left of centre, moderate, to get into 10 Downing Street; and
2. Staying loyal to true lifelong hard left political views & mates of the last 45 years (anti all of: Capitalism, NATO, USA, Israel, EU and pro all of: Iran, Hamas, Assad, anti-west Russia).

This illegal anti semitism and racism puts him on the spot. He hasn't got the balls to expel these evil mates.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Well, your opening post on this thread, or your numerous anti Corbyn posts on other threads. We get it , you don’t like the man.

Of course, took you long enough, ffs. At least I have Labour Peer and former donor Alan Sugar in the same camp as me, or perhaps he's a closet Tory

 

[Brighton Mod]

I am merely trying to ascertain whether you genuinely care about about anti-semitism and the moral integrity of politicians and the parties they represent or whether you just want to have a moan about Corbyn. If it is the former, it would be fair to assume my previous comments re The Tories would also cause you outrage. If not, you are a massive hypocrite.

And I have addressed your post, by point out you were wrong re Corbyn responding to anti-semitsm (unlike May and comments made by Jarvid) and Russia.

Re your last paragraph, he's still to convincingly explain his position to 40 of his own MPs and now Lord Sugar, so i'm not alone in my thoughts, I find myself agreeing with labour MPs. Regarding MPs I have clearly made my point in trusting none of them, especially those on the right in the Tory Party.
The big question you have failed to ask is my status in all of this, who have you promulgated an arguement on anti semitisim with. As for Corbyn, he is clearly out of his depth at the moment, frightened to face the press because of the seriousness of the matter or he is still not across the issue in hand. His absence can only be described as weakness and now its transferring to his shadow cabinet with the only spokesman on the matter appearing to be McDonnell.

So to be crystal clear:

Anti semitism is an anathema to me and has no place in modern Britain
No MPs should be trusted they are all mostly self serving, lying, cheating low lifes
Corbyn is a weak leader with some very strange policies
I don't like Corbyn as I regard him as a wolf in sheeps clothing

I trust this is clear enough for you

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Re your last paragraph, he's still to convincingly explain his position to 40 of his own MPs and now Lord Sugar, so i'm not alone in my thoughts, I find myself agreeing with labour MPs. Regarding MPs I have clearly made my point in trusting none of them, especially those on the right in the Tory Party.
The big question you have failed to ask is my status in all of this, who have you promulgated an arguement on anti semitisim with. As for Corbyn, he is clearly out of his depth at the moment, frightened to face the press because of the seriousness of the matter or he is still not across the issue in hand. His absence can only be described as weakness and now its transferring to his shadow cabinet with the only spokesman on the matter appearing to be McDonnell.

So to be crystal clear:

Anti semitism is an anathema to me and has no place in modern Britain
No MPs should be trusted they are all mostly self serving, lying, cheating low lifes
Corbyn is a weak leader with some very strange policies
I don't like Corbyn as I regard him as a wolf in sheeps clothing

I trust this is clear enough for you

Corbyn has made statements in regards to both your previous concerns. If you’re waiting for a song and dance routine in front of TV cameras, you may be waiting for a very long time.

You claim that JC isn’t fit to lead, yet I fail to see a single thread started by yourself (or others) regarding the half a dozen bigotry and bullying scandals within the Tory ranks this last fortnight that May has ignored or been implicit in. If you (or the media) were in any way balanced, the Tory bigotry and bullying would have got an absolute storm of publicity but instead they've been buried underneath a landslide of anti-Semitism smears against Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour Party, and the left in general.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Corbyn has made statements in regards to both your previous concerns. If you’re waiting for a song and dance routine in front of TV cameras, you may be waiting for a very long time.

You claim that JC isn’t fit to lead, yet I fail to see a single thread started by yourself (or others) regarding the half a dozen bigotry and bullying scandals within the Tory ranks this last fortnight that May has ignored or been implicit in. If you (or the media) were in any way balanced, the Tory bigotry and bullying would have got an absolute storm of publicity but instead they've been buried underneath a landslide of anti-Semitism smears against Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour Party, and the left in general.

You're so focused on your own viewpoint that you re not listening or reading others posts. The post is about Corbyn, not May, Cable, Lucas or Sturgeon. They may all be bad leaders, but thats not for this thread, its about Corbyn, you're attempting to introduce other issues as mitigation but its not working. THIS POST IS ABOUT CORBYN.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

You're so focused on your own viewpoint that you re not listening or reading others posts. The post is about Corbyn, not May, Cable, Lucas or Sturgeon. They may all be bad leaders, but thats not for this thread, its about Corbyn, you're attempting to introduce other issues as mitigation but its not working. THIS POST IS ABOUT CORBYN.

I know this post is about Corbyn. But I am asking you, if you are so concerned about anti-senitism, Russia et al, where are your threads about anti-semitism and questionable leadership in OTHER parties, especially the Tories? Where was your thread and outrage when the Tories outed a gay man against his will whilst May did nothing? Where was your outrage when Tory MP Bob Blackman took to Facebook in order to share a grotesque piece of extreme-right, Islamophobic, anti-Somalian propaganda from the United States? It seems to me you are far less concerned about the actual issues and more concerned about targeting Corbyn.

Nobody denies that there are problems with anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry within the Labour Party. Given that anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry are shockingly commonplace in wider society, any organisation of the size of the Labour Party is bound to have a few horrible people kicking around.

The problem is the way the mainstream media insist on presenting the anti-Semitism debate as if it's a Labour-specific problem that's getting worse under Jeremy Corbyn, when the actual evidence shows that anti-Semitic views are very much more common from Conservatives, and that rates of anti-Semitism have actually fallen dramatically amongst Labour supporters since Jeremy Corbyn became leader in 2015.

Comparison of two YouGov surveys in 2015 and 2017 shows that rates of anti-Semitism amongst Labour supporters has fallen dramatically, while the same polls show that anti-Semitism rates amongst Tory supporters is barely falling at all.

In 2015, 22% of Labour voters agreed with the statement that ‘Jews chase money more than other people’, whilst in 2017 the number of Labour voters agreeing with the statement had declined to 14%.

These results compare with 31% of Conservative voters who agreed with the statement that ‘Jews chase money more than other people’ in 2015, whilst in 2017 this had declined slightly to 27% who still agreed with the statement.

Then there's the research from the Campaign Against AntiSemitism that found that the prevalence of anti-Semitic views amongst Labour and Lib-Dem supporters is much lower than the general public, but that the prevalence of anti-Semitic views amongst Tories is higher than the public at large, and even actually higher than the average for Brexit voters!

Of course Labour needs to fight against anti-Semitic views amongst its members and supporters, but anyone who tries to make out that anti-Semitism is a Labour-specific problem when rates of anti-Semitism are higher, and falling much more slowly in the Tory ranks is clearly weaponising allegations of anti-Semitism for party political purposes.

 

[Brighton Mod]

I know this post is about Corbyn. But I am asking you, if you are so concerned about anti-senitism, Russia et al, where are your threads about anti-semitism and questionable leadership in OTHER parties, especially the Tories? Where was your thread and outrage when the Tories outed a gay man against his will whilst May did nothing? Where was your outrage when Tory MP Bob Blackman took to Facebook in order to share a grotesque piece of extreme-right, Islamophobic, anti-Somalian propaganda from the United States? It seems to me you are far less concerned about the actual issues and more concerned about targeting Corbyn.

Nobody denies that there are problems with anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry within the Labour Party. Given that anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry are shockingly commonplace in wider society, any organisation of the size of the Labour Party is bound to have a few horrible people kicking around.

The problem is the way the mainstream media insist on presenting the anti-Semitism debate as if it's a Labour-specific problem that's getting worse under Jeremy Corbyn, when the actual evidence shows that anti-Semitic views are very much more common from Conservatives, and that rates of anti-Semitism have actually fallen dramatically amongst Labour supporters since Jeremy Corbyn became leader in 2015.

Comparison of two YouGov surveys in 2015 and 2017 shows that rates of anti-Semitism amongst Labour supporters has fallen dramatically, while the same polls show that anti-Semitism rates amongst Tory supporters is barely falling at all.

In 2015, 22% of Labour voters agreed with the statement that ‘Jews chase money more than other people’, whilst in 2017 the number of Labour voters agreeing with the statement had declined to 14%.

These results compare with 31% of Conservative voters who agreed with the statement that ‘Jews chase money more than other people’ in 2015, whilst in 2017 this had declined slightly to 27% who still agreed with the statement.

Then there's the research from the Campaign Against AntiSemitism that found that the prevalence of anti-Semitic views amongst Labour and Lib-Dem supporters is much lower than the general public, but that the prevalence of anti-Semitic views amongst Tories is higher than the public at large, and even actually higher than the average for Brexit voters!

Of course Labour needs to fight against anti-Semitic views amongst its members and supporters, but anyone who tries to make out that anti-Semitism is a Labour-specific problem when rates of anti-Semitism are higher, and falling much more slowly in the Tory ranks is clearly weaponising allegations of anti-Semitism for party political purposes.

Whether its labour specific or not, it clearly exists in the Labour Party and they are failing to provide a definitive position on it. Hence, if Corbyn is the leader of the Labour party and its failing to communicate, he carries the can and if you were to take off your partisan hat would be able to clearly see this. Your posts full of words such as bigotry, bullying and smears are resonant and trotted out everytime there is an issue with Labour. Given that Corbyn has said that he would deal with the press if he became PM, is it any wonder he's no trusted by them. That was not a very smart comment. Anyway, i'm just leaving for the match now lets at least agree on us getting 3 points today.

 

[Blue3]

Corbyn the Yogoslavian spy proved to be rubbish yet the story went on for weeks only coming to an end after a Tory MP was forced to issue an apology together with a large donation to charity while out a week or so ago another story about Russian individuals donating to the Tory Party Was quietly forgotten about just imagine if that had been Labour the head lines would be Comrade Corbyn, the establishment is scared labour might win the next election and are trying to do what ever it can to find and throw mud in the hope some sticks.

The establishment tows the USA line and has done so pretty much since WW2 and this includes unwavering support for the state of Israel at the expence of any Palestinian views, Corbyns Labour has in my view a more balanced view and not the polarised view the establishment is constantly feeding us

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Whether its labour specific or not, it clearly exists in the Labour Party and they are failing to provide a definitive position on it. Hence, if Corbyn is the leader of the Labour party and its failing to communicate, he carries the can and if you were to take off your partisan hat would be able to clearly see this. Your posts full of words such as bigotry, bullying and smears are resonant and trotted out everytime there is an issue with Labour. Given that Corbyn has said that he would deal with the press if he became PM, is it any wonder he's no trusted by them. That was not a very smart comment. Anyway, i'm just leaving for the match now lets at least agree on us getting 3 points today.

How is Corbyn coming out and saying anti-semitism has no place in the Labour Party not a definitive position? I wouldn’t call it a smear of it wasn’t. Given the evidence is clear that that rates of anti-Semitism are much higher amongst Tories and the political right, the effort to present anti-Semitism as if it's a Labour-specific problem is clearly dishonest journalism. But plenty of mainstream media sources have gone much further than dishonesty, by wandering off into the realm of outright lies.
Take the Scotsman's claim that "rising anti-Semitism could bring Corbyn down". Not only is anti-Semitism actually falling, but it's falling much faster under Jeremy Corbyn than it is under Theresa May. The problem of course is that the truth is largely irrelevant to a vast numbers of mainstream media hacks, who continually attack anyone who threatens the neoliberal orthodoxy because they're not really journalists at all, they're simply stenographers for the right-wing establishment.

The reason the anti-Semitism issue has arisen again, just before the local elections, is that it's a highly effective wedge strategy to attack the political left with. The blind eye that's been turned to numerous Tory bigotry scandals over the same time frame as the anti-Semitism furore stands as proof that most Tories don't give the faintest damn about bigotry amongst their own ranks, but they know that people on the liberal-left do give a damn, which is why they're using the issue to attack Labour.

On a more positive note, enjoy the game. Here’s hoping for 3 points.

 

[beorhthelm]

having listned to radio this morning from Labour activists experiences of anti-semitic problems, its not about how much is in the party at large but that individuals with anti-semitic view are increasingly gaining positions of power and influence, while the leadership does nothing about it, with some insinuation those very close to top are symapthetic to those views. thats why theres a big fuss about it from within the party. or we can say its all just a smear to discredit Corbyn, who could settle this by purging those people from the party and affiliates.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

How is Corbyn coming out and saying anti-semitism has no place in the Labour Party not a definitive position? I wouldn’t call it a smear of it wasn’t. Given the evidence is clear that that rates of anti-Semitism are much higher amongst Tories and the political right, the effort to present anti-Semitism as if it's a Labour-specific problem is clearly dishonest journalism. But plenty of mainstream media sources have gone much further than dishonesty, by wandering off into the realm of outright lies.
Take the Scotsman's claim that "rising anti-Semitism could bring Corbyn down". Not only is anti-Semitism actually falling, but it's falling much faster under Jeremy Corbyn than it is under Theresa May. The problem of course is that the truth is largely irrelevant to a vast numbers of mainstream media hacks, who continually attack anyone who threatens the neoliberal orthodoxy because they're not really journalists at all, they're simply stenographers for the right-wing establishment.

The reason the anti-Semitism issue has arisen again, just before the local elections, is that it's a highly effective wedge strategy to attack the political left with. The blind eye that's been turned to numerous Tory bigotry scandals over the same time frame as the anti-Semitism furore stands as proof that most Tories don't give the faintest damn about bigotry amongst their own ranks, but they know that people on the liberal-left do give a damn, which is why they're using the issue to attack Labour.

On a more positive note, enjoy the game. Here’s hoping for 3 points.

Corbyn has said a lot of things for some time meanwhile the actions don't match the rhetoric.

Where have journalists said anti-Semitism is only to be found in one party?

The spotlight is currently on Labour because Labour Mp's, Labour members and Jewish groups are highlighting concerns. Suggesting the main problem is the right wing press including Jewish groups weaponising this issue smacks of a conspiracy theory mindset that leads back to the mural Corbyn defended. Some may be exploiting very real concerns but this always happens.

Polls about voters prejudices have no relevance in accurately judging the level of anti Semitism within political parties as you know. Whereas a very recent poll (this week) showing only 8% of Labour members who voted for Corbyn to lead the Labour party think anti Semitism is a serious/genuine problem has far more relevance. This also shows your point about no one acknowledging this as a problem is bull. Also 65% of all Labour members thought Israel was a force for bad, many more than condemned Iran (State endorsed Anti-Semitism).

Labour are the party that felt the need to instigate an internal investigation into anti Semitism if it wasn't a serious increasing problem why did they do this? Two years on over 70 cases still awaiting resolution. The Labour Leader chose to defend and associate with known anti Semites … any party leader would receive the appropriate scrutiny.

Whinging about legitimate scrutiny or indulging in whataboutery won't help address the problem.

 

[looney]

Sugars meme he deleted.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Corbyn has said a lot of things for some time meanwhile the actions don't match the rhetoric.

Where have journalists said anti-Semitism is only to be found in one party?

The spotlight is currently on Labour because Labour Mp's, Labour members and Jewish groups are highlighting concerns. Suggesting the main problem is the right wing press including Jewish groups weaponising this issue smacks of a conspiracy theory mindset that leads back to the mural Corbyn defended. Some may be exploiting very real concerns but this always happens.

Polls about voters prejudices have no relevance in accurately judging the level of anti Semitism within political parties as you know. Whereas a very recent poll (this week) showing only 8% of Labour members who voted for Corbyn to lead the Labour party think anti Semitism is a serious/genuine problem has far more relevance. This also shows your point about no one acknowledging this as a problem is bull. Also 65% of all Labour members thought Israel was a force for bad, many more than condemned Iran (State endorsed Anti-Semitism).

Labour are the party that felt the need to instigate an internal investigation into anti Semitism if it wasn't a serious increasing problem why did they do this? Two years on over 70 cases still awaiting resolution. The Labour Leader chose to defend and associate with known anti Semites … any party leader would receive the appropriate scrutiny.

Whinging about legitimate scrutiny or indulging in whataboutery won't help address the problem.

Surely the problem is anti-semitism and claiming you care about it when in fact all you care about is going after Corbyn (I’m not claiming you are just that it is evident that it’s the only reason the press and the Tories keep bringing up is to attack the left) won’t help either. You call it ‘whataboutery’ I call it holding ALL to account and showing balance. But this isn’t about ‘balance’ it’s just another excuse to attack and undermine Labour and Corbyn.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Surely the problem is anti-semitism and claiming you care about it when in fact all you care about is going after Corbyn (I’m not claiming you are just that it is evident that it’s the only reason the press and the Tories keep bringing up is to attack the left) won’t help either. You call it ‘whataboutery’ I call it holding ALL to account and showing balance. But this isn’t about ‘balance’ it’s just another excuse to attack and undermine Labour and Corbyn.

Yes, the problem is antisemitism ... a major problem in the Labour party according to Labour MP's, Labour Members, Jewish groups as reported in The Guardian and The Mirror. If it was just the right-wing press and Tories making claims you may have a point but it isn't. I am sure Corbyn supporters and Labour-supporting papers have trawled high and low for stories that show a similar problem in other parties. If the PM had been found defending an obviously anti semetic mural, associating with rabidly anti-Semitic people and groups I expect she would be under fire. As would the Tories If they had launched an internal investigation into anti-Semitism two years ago and still had over 70 cases unresolved. If Jewish groups had declared the Tory party officially racist I expect that would also have made the news.

This is about legitimate scrutiny of Corbyn and the Labour party. Playing the victim/conspiracy card or indulging in whataboutery looks very much like political diversionary tactics.