[Music] When you read something about your heroes that you don’t want to beliieve

[Icy Gull]

We don't know do we. But when you bear in mind what I've just said I would err on the side of probably, yes. Also bearing in mind that the vast majority of women at some point in there lives will be subject to some form of abuse from a men then also I would believe her.

Like I said if it was a female in your family would you believe her or call her a gold digging attention seeker?

If it was a female in my family I’d know it was true if she told me it was but I can assure you no 12 year old daughter of mine would be staying in a hotel apartment with a rock star or any other non family member for a month

 

[hans kraay fan club]

We don't know do we. But when you bear in mind what I've just said I would err on the side of probably, yes. Also bearing in mind that the vast majority of women at some point in there lives will be subject to some form of abuse from a men then also I would believe her.

Like I said if it was a female in your family would you believe her or call her a gold digging attention seeker?

Its rather an odd comparison to make. If it were a female in your own family then you'd know them - their character, their integrity (or lack of it). You'd actually have some substance to base your thoughts on.

In this case, its a decades-old accusation, from one person I have never met, against another person I have never met. How could you possibly 'err on the side of probably', any more than others have glibly assumed the opposite?

 

[m@goo]

If it was a female in my family I’d know it was true if she told me it was but I can assure you no 12 year old daughter of mine would be staying in a hotel apartment with a rock star or any other non family member for a month

So we shouldn't believe this woman who was a child at the time because she had useless parents?

 

[m@goo]

Its rather an odd comparison to make. If it were a female in your own family then you'd know them - their character, their integrity (or lack of it). You'd actually have some substance to base your thoughts on.

In this case, its a decades-old accusation, from one person I have never met, against another person I have never met. How could you possibly 'err on the side of probably', any more than others have glibly assumed the opposite?

No we don't know her character or who she is but again, consider what it takes to come forward against someone like Dylan. And we can err on the side of probably because like I just said the vast majority of women at some point in there lives are abused at some level. The girls and women in our own families probably have or probably will be abused because of their gender.

 

[Icy Gull]

So we shouldn't believe this woman who was a child at the time because she had useless parents?

I’d be inclined not to after so long but of course it needs investigating. If it is true there is a very real likelihood that it wasn’t a one off. You’d also imagine that old members of Dylan’s entourage who are probably not involved with him now might step forward as something like this could not go unnoticed, it wasn’t one night but a full month allegedly.

Have you considered that the woman might be a complete fruit loop?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

So we shouldn't believe this woman who was a child at the time because she had useless parents?

I neither believe nor disbelieve her. I have nothing to base any feeling on. Nor does anybody else, not involved, or familiar with either person.

If I were MADE to make a decision (purely on the very, very limited information presented) I'd suggest that the thing with the dates does nothing to support her case. It was decades ago, as you say, and would be very difficult to remember, but in this case rather than saying 'one spring / summer sometime in the mid 60s' she's (apparently) detailed a specific set of dates, during which it seems, the accused can be proven to have been on a different continent.

 

[m@goo]

I’d be inclined not to after so long but of course it needs investigating. If it is true there is a very real likelihood that it wasn’t a one off. You’d also imagine that old members of Dylan’s entourage who are probably not involved with him now might step forward as something like this could not go unnoticed, it wasn’t one night but a full month allegedly.

Have you considered that the woman might be a complete fruit loop?

Again, this is the exact reason women (and men of course) don't come forward. Oh she's probably a fruit loop. Why wait so long? How did he get away with it if he was surrounded by others? We said the same things about Savile and Epstein. It's wrong and we should start from a position of belief, not derision especially when the claim is against someone with power and where it takes courage to come forward. And even if no others come forward it doesn't mean she's lying.

 

[Simster]

I find myself in full agreement with hkfc here. Almost impossible for me to err on any side as things stand.

I'll wait for him to make a clumsy attempt at deflecting blame via a TV interview, and insist he is doing what he can to assist police with their enquiries. If he then demonstrably bullshits in that interview and then does everything he can to avoid helping the police, I'll draw my own conclusions from that. And that conclusion will probably be that he is a disgusting NONCE.

 

[Robinjakarta]

We don't know do we. But when you bear in mind what I've just said I would err on the side of probably, yes.

Maybe better to give up erring.

 

[m@goo]

I neither believe nor disbelieve her. I have nothing to base any feeling on. Nor does anybody else, not involved, or familiar with either person.

If I were MADE to make a decision (purely on the very, very limited information presented) I'd suggest that the thing with the dates does nothing to support her case. It was decades ago, as you say, and would be very difficult to remember, but in this case rather than saying 'one spring / summer sometime in the mid 60s' she's (apparently) detailed a specific set of dates, during which it seems, the accused can be proven to have been on a different continent.

It's possible she's had to give an exact time frame to substantiate her claim but I have no idea exactly and precisely what I was doing or where I was when I was 12. She might just be wrong on the time but it does not mean she was lying.

 

[zefarelly]

I’d be inclined not to after so long but of course it needs investigating. If it is true there is a very real likelihood that it wasn’t a one off. You’d also imagine that old members of Dylan’s entourage who are probably not involved with him now might step forward as something like this could not go unnoticed, it wasn’t one night but a full month allegedly.

Have you considered that the woman might be a complete fruit loop?

Quite a lot of the entourage from the mid 60's are most likely pushing up daisies.

If there's anything in it my guess would be she was star struck and happy to be where she was . . . this whole case has been instigated by a cash hungry lawyer. but its nothing more than a wild guess. Biggest alarm bell to me was how/why such a young girl would be in that situation.

We had a few 'groupies' back in the day, some of them were quite young, 6-8 years younger than me when I was in my mid 20's . . . . (I can say that with confidence as a few are friends to this day)
I don't ever recall girls under 16 being out at gigs and clubs when we were in our pomp. . . It's a long time ago but it would have been noticeable to my mind, for many reasons. It was also commented on amongst many of us in bands that certain girls were younger than the average at the time. . . . so IF young girls had been about and taken advantage of it would have been very noticable. . . . and not tolerated/approved of . . . .maybe us Sussex lads are too gentlemanly ;-)

 

[Icy Gull]

Again, this is the exact reason women (and men of course) don't come forward. Oh she's probably a fruit loop. Why wait so long? How did he get away with it if he was surrounded by others? We said the same things about Savile and Epstein. It's wrong and we should start from a position of belief, not derision especially when the claim is against someone with power and where it takes courage to come forward. And even if no others come forward it doesn't mean she's lying.

Don’t know enough about Epstein but there were plenty of comments made about Saville. Simon Dee lost his job because of it and Johnny Rotten also made reference to it among quite a few others. The BBC and Saville’s high flying associates covered it up. I have never read a single article on Dylan being suspected of being a paedophile so, yes, I treat this accusation with distrust but as I said before it does need to be and will be investigated.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

No idea of the facts here.

But it's only really in the last 10 years that rock/film stars of that era have started denying the "groupie culture" actually existed, or at least that they were a part of it.

Some of them have boasted about it in autobiographies and the perception that comes across is very much that that was part of what was normal in those circles at that time. (not a comment on the morality of it btw, just the prevalence)

 

[shingle]

Luckily for me, I've never considered Bob Dylan my hero. There was something very odd about the bloke when he stood up during live aid bleating that he felt some of the money raised should go to American farmers.

I mean, FFS.

Wasn't that Neil Young ?

 

[Tight shorts]

Quite a lot of the entourage from the mid 60's are most likely pushing up daisies.

If there's anything in it my guess would be she was star struck and happy to be where she was . . . this whole case has been instigated by a cash hungry lawyer. but its nothing more than a wild guess. Biggest alarm bell to me was how/why such a young girl would be in that situation.

We had a few 'groupies' back in the day, some of them were quite young, 6-8 years younger than me when I was in my mid 20's . . . . (I can say that with confidence as a few are friends to this day)
I don't ever recall girls under 16 being out at gigs and clubs when we were in our pomp. . . It's a long time ago but it would have been noticeable to my mind, for many reasons. It was also commented on amongst many of us in bands that certain girls were younger than the average at the time. . . . so IF young girls had been about and taken advantage of it would have been very noticable. . . . and not tolerated/approved of . . . .maybe us Sussex lads are too gentlemanly ;-)

Can I ask what you mean by "If there's anything in it my guess would be she was star struck and happy to be where she was . . . " ?

 

[shingle]

Wasn't that Neil Young ?

Just checked and you're right, was Bob Dylan.

 

[Lenny Rider]

I'd always thought that Stuart Hall was an expert when it came to the art of 'bird pulling' but never thought any of them would be under age or not consenting.

 

[Icy Gull]

Quite a lot of the entourage from the mid 60's are most likely pushing up daisies.

If there's anything in it my guess would be she was star struck and happy to be where she was . . . this whole case has been instigated by a cash hungry lawyer. but its nothing more than a wild guess. Biggest alarm bell to me was how/why such a young girl would be in that situation.

We had a few 'groupies' back in the day, some of them were quite young, 6-8 years younger than me when I was in my mid 20's . . . . (I can say that with confidence as a few are friends to this day)
I don't ever recall girls under 16 being out at gigs and clubs when we were in our pomp. . . It's a long time ago but it would have been noticeable to my mind, for many reasons. It was also commented on amongst many of us in bands that certain girls were younger than the average at the time. . . . so IF young girls had been about and taken advantage of it would have been very noticable. . . . and not tolerated/approved of . . . .maybe us Sussex lads are too gentlemanly ;-)

Well you would say that wouldn’t you

 

[The Clamp]

Wouldn’t surprise me at all. From my experience the entertainment industry at every level is riddled with perversions both legal and illegal. Young, naive girls are swallowed up by some nasty, nasty individuals. And that was recently, I can imagine it being ten-fold back in those days.
Not saying he’s guilty but if he were, he certainly wouldn’t be alone.

 

[Simster]

Wasn't that Neil Young ?

No, it was definitely Dylan.