[Politics] When did this country become so cruel?

[Neville's Breakfast]

Really? They certainly didn't add salt for flavour.

Well, no. However it is also not clear that they did it because of the ‘psyche of this country,’ as asserted by the OP. So yes, we probably need a little more information….

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Plot twist.

The good in me wants to believe she’s doing a lovely kind thing.

The sceptical in me says why aren’t you working and paying tax if you can ‘work’ this little non for profit business…?

Not sure which one to believe….

But wouldn’t know without knowing her and seeing her work and reasons she’s nicely working etc etc

The story is up on the BBC page now.....



Edit: in the vid (which I have only just watched) it is a sprinkling from what looks like half a dozen tubs of Saxa. It was dry at the time. It hasn't been dug or washed in. Twenty minutes with volunteers and their hand held vacuums, job could have been done. What am I missing?

 

[Badger]

I think you're being extremely harsh. Having lived abroad a lot as well, I really disagree.

On the contrary to your post as an example, people in the UK give more to charity than almost every other nation bar a few. (That doesn't mean there's more need for charity in this country before someone says it - most countries are going through similar problems as us re poverty etc especially since the cost of living crisis)

Edit also, in every country I've lived in through work you generally find that people think their country is worse off than others with the same 'this country has gone to the dogs/what's happened to this country' feeling in general. Not saying that's the same in every country, but I'd say it's largely true

Absolutely this. Having lived in Toronto for almost 8 years, I can confidently say you get a similar proportion of self-entitled dickheads who aren't willing to help anyone. Unfortunately, some of those people are in positions of power. You only have to take a ride on the subway and you're pretty much guaranteed to see some of the rising homeless population with serious mental health problems, not being given the help they need. This has manifested itself in attacks on the public in recent times, which just makes people even less likely to offer help.

 

[dsr-burnley]

"There's no such thing as society"

Do you think that food banks are run by society? I don't. I think it's as Margaret Thatcher said in the interview that you quote, that individual men and women are running the food banks. Not "society".

 

[Horses Arse]

very peculiar responses. Thatcher would have applauded someone doing something for others. such a spiteful act might be some allotment dispute, whatever the cause its scummy people being scummy people, because they get away with it as others will make apologies and exceptions for them until they dont know right and wrong.

Not peculiar at all. Thatcher would onky applaud someone doing something for themselves. That was what she was about.

She created the benefit generations. She celebrated greed. She made it OK just to think about you and yours, no one else.

 

[Sheebo]

She's disabled which didn't take much investigation, so maybe do a bit of digging (pun intended)before accusing? She has also helped at the local food bank.

I did say I wouldn’t know - just offered 2 potential opinions…

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

The story is up on the BBC page now.....



Edit: in the vi (which I have only just watched) it is a sprinkling from what looks like half a dozen tubs of Saxa. It was dry at the time. It hasn't been dug or washed in. Twenty minutes with volunteers and their hand held vacuums, job could have been done. What am I missing?

The bulk of her stuff is saved from landfill and is still in shop packaging, so the veg she grows in her garden is minimal.

 

[Pevenseagull]

"There's no such thing as society"

Pretty much


she died alone in a hotel room surrounded by the people who loved her.

 

[chickens]

Do you think that food banks are run by society? I don't. I think it's as Margaret Thatcher said in the interview that you quote, that individual men and women are running the food banks. Not "society".

Yes, but without the concepts of society and community this wouldn’t happen. It’s not in the self-interest of the individuals involved to give up their time and effort to offer this, it’s a societal service that lowers crime, prevents hunger and enables people in dire circumstances to live.

If we all believed in “survival of the fittest” then there would be one survivor with everything, and with all due respect, that is unlikely to be you.

 

[Horses Arse]

Oh, just shut up. Thatcher is nothing to do with it.

She's got so much to do with the problems this country is in. But just respond by shouting shut up if that makes you feel better. It's fine.

 

[beorhthelm]

The story is up on the BBC page now.....



Edit: in the vid (which I have only just watched) it is a sprinkling from what looks like half a dozen tubs of Saxa. It was dry at the time. It hasn't been dug or washed in. Twenty minutes with volunteers and their hand held vacuums, job could have been done. What am I missing?

expect thats immediatly after finding it, so not aware what can be done. not sure its as simple as vacuuming up table salt but fixable. reading the gofundme more convinced this is someone with a petty greivance, not why she is growing the food.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Do you think that food banks are run by society? I don't. I think it's as Margaret Thatcher said in the interview that you quote, that individual men and women are running the food banks. Not "society".

No, but the coming together of individual men and women to create food banks IS society.

Thatcher was all for individual men and women doing it just for themselves and their families.

Anyway, this thread seems to have triggered the usual culture war, so I'm off to unsheathe my simple sword of truth, and dust down my trusty shield of British fair play

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

expect thats immediatly after finding it, so not aware what can be done. not sure its as simple as vacuuming up table salt but fixable. reading the gofundme more convinced this is someone with a petty greivance, not why she is growing the food.

a personal petty grievance? who could possibly hold a personal grudge? ex-bf maybe?

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes, but without the concepts of society and community this wouldn’t happen. It’s not in the self-interest of the individuals involved to give up their time and effort to offer this, it’s a societal service that lowers crime, prevents hunger and enables people in dire circumstances to live.

If we all believed in “survival of the fittest” then there would be one survivor with everything, and with all due respect, that is unlikely to be you.

who said this:
"...the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate. "

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yes, but without the concepts of society and community this wouldn’t happen. It’s not in the self-interest of the individuals involved to give up their time and effort to offer this, it’s a societal service that lowers crime, prevents hunger and enables people in dire circumstances to live.

If we all believed in “survival of the fittest” then there would be one survivor with everything, and with all due respect, that is unlikely to be you.

There is quite a lot of misunderstanding of Thatcherism on this thread. Her philosophy was anti state not anti charity. It lives on in America where I have seen wealthy philanthropists claiming in debate that they should choose the causes for which they donate their money rather than pay tax and have it decided by professionals. If we are going to deride Thatcherism let’s do it with some understanding of how it works.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The story is up on the BBC page now.....



Edit: in the vid (which I have only just watched) it is a sprinkling from what looks like half a dozen tubs of Saxa. It was dry at the time. It hasn't been dug or washed in. Twenty minutes with volunteers and their hand held vacuums, job could have been done. What am I missing?

It rained heavily the night it was sprinkled so has washed in.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Do you think that food banks are run by society? I don't. I think it's as Margaret Thatcher said in the interview that you quote, that individual men and women are running the food banks. Not "society".

I know of many churches running food banks, and as far as I know, churches are still part of society.
Incidentally, during the miners strike, churches did food parcels for the families.

 

[beorhthelm]

a personal petty grievance? who could possibly hold a personal grudge? ex-bf maybe?

the gofundme speaks of getting the council onside and running a sizable piece of land. there's a lot of back story there.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There is quite a lot of misunderstanding of Thatcherism on this thread. Her philosophy was anti state not anti charity. It lives on in America where I have seen wealthy philanthropists claiming in debate that they should choose the causes for which they donate their money rather than pay tax and have it decided by professionals. If we are going to deride Thatcherism let’s do it with some understanding of how it works.

Of course she wasn't anti charity. She was keen for charity to fill the gas in a shrinking state! Whoever said she was anti charity is mad. But I don't recall anyone making such a claim on this thread.

And yet....she didn't do much for charity herself. She set up a foundation that appears to fund Oxford scholarhips, and she has supported the Raisa Gorbachev foundation. She was no Jeremy Corbyn (see reports of his activities over Christmases),

And America's rich philanthropists (several of whom created universities) are in a different league from ours.

This thread has gone down the usual path. Luckily the football's on.....

 

[chickens]

There is quite a lot of misunderstanding of Thatcherism on this thread. Her philosophy was anti state not anti charity. It lives on in America where I have seen wealthy philanthropists claiming in debate that they should choose the causes for which they donate their money rather than pay tax and have it decided by professionals. If we are going to deride Thatcherism let’s do it with some understanding of how it works.

I agree that Thatcher was not anti-charity, my argument with her ethos was that she wanted charity to largely replace the state rather than augment it.

Many will be born in Britain who for myriad reasons would not make model employees, that could be physical or mental health, intelligence, trauma suffered while in the womb (or after) and/or a whole lot more. I agree that people should strive to do what they can, providing it does not cause them persistent and otherwise unnecessary suffering.

Thatcher’s approach to this (not insignificant) section of society was largely along the lines of “let them eat cake.” Those who claim benefits are not living a life of luxury at the taxpayer’s expense, they’re the people who serve you at Costa, they’re the people processing your passport or driving licence renewal. They’re the workers who have kids and no partner.

Access to charity is patchwork, postcode dependent, and far more accessible in urban areas than rural ones. The state (in my opinion) should be ensuring that there’s a level playing field, access to education and opportunity for all who want it. Leaving it to charities to take up the slack leads to unequal provision, plus the risk of people refusing to take up charity through pride or fear of stigma.

Edit: HWT beat me to it, need to learn to type faster on a phone.