[Albion] When Did It All Go So Wrong?

[Lifelong Supporter]

You cannot say we will be a bottom 6 side until (a) we know who the new manager is; and; (b) we know the player's that we recruit and/or lose... so, totally disagree...

It will be something short of miraculous if we are not bottom six next year whoever is appointed and whoever is purchased. The issue is how we get there and whether we manage to stay up. It is just my personal view of what is likely. I would love to be wrong !!!

 

[sydney]

it didn't go WRONG .....we just haven't kept up or our efforts to do so were , frankly , shyte.

 

[chaileyjem]

Christ, we already know that's factually incorrect.
Unless you are referring to the future, in which case, can I have a look in your crystal ball?

Its an attempt at a joke.

 

[GT49er]

Out of interest, do you think were there any points gained during the season that were down to something other than luck, or any that were lost that weren't all the fault of Hughton & his tactics?

Good question!

 

[BensGrandad]

Out of interest, do you think were there any points gained during the season that were down to something other than luck, or any that were lost that weren't all the fault of Hughton & his tactics?

Cardiff away 2 ref mistakes but Neil Warnock forgets those

 

[southstandandy]

Fulham away was a big turning point for me. Complete capitulation in the second half and never looked the same thereafter. Felt it was a mistake to rush Matty back in goal as did look a bit rusty that night and Button had done little wrong over the previous month.

Just realised that our 6 home league wins this season equates to 1 every 7 weeks or near as. Think the fans stayed pretty loyal given the paucity of wins.

 

[Seagull73]

Cardiff away 2 ref mistakes but Neil Warnock forgets those

Beat me to it - think Mtoto has forgotten it too. Next year with VAR, certainly Cardiff's winning goal would not stand.
But that's 1 defeat in 20.

All 3 of the 1-0 wins in October had more than their fair share of luck to them (I posted the stats in another thread so can't be arsed to do it again).
Huddersfield home and Palace away, while both won with good goals, had more than a share of luck.
About the only win that I can remember that was absolutely nailed-on deserved was Manchester United at home in August - why, because we went for them from the first whistle.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

We got to a situation where some on NSC were talking of Europe , see bedwetting tracker,then there was a run of tricky games which were identified but the team didn't ever seem to recover their composure after that run. Their confidence seemed shot and the manager also then played not to lose to try to stem the flow.

 

[Mtoto]

Interesting that you quote the Xg stats for us against Burnley and Watford as unlucky, yet when you look at the same Xg stat against Newcastle (a), Wolves (h), West Ham (h) Palace (a) we would have been classed as lucky to have gained a point let alone three.

You may see this as small margins, but performances over a season will usual catch up with you, perfect example being Huddersfield last season. Their Xg in the first Prem season was 9 times out of 10 lower than their opponents, but the small margins were always in their favour. Over time this will usual catch up with a team as seen this year. I feel if we had followed this same approach next season we were doomed for relegation.

In regards to Hughton, I almost feel like he has a mental block of not believing he is good enough for the league. This started with the way he set the team up away from home last season and crept into how we set up at home this year. I think if we are all honest, even those that really don't like Hughton, at Home last season we looked a really good side that belonged in the Premier League. This year we haven't been even close to those standards (United and Palace at home aside)

I respect when you are coming from in terms of a point a game is enough to stay in the league and that's all we should be aiming for. But I personally could not think of anything worse than knowing our team is setting up to not get beat, I think that's where our differing opinions probably are.

I'm not suggesting that a point a game is all we should be aiming for, I'm suggesting that it makes sense to protect the one you start with as much as is practically possible, which is not quite the same thing. And all points are not created equal - the one we started with at Wolves, for instance, was far more precious in the circumstances, especially after the capitulation against Cardiff, than any of the preceding 33. Away from home, on the whole, the initial point is also more precious than it is at the Amex, because of course you need nine or 10 wins over the course of the season and at home is where we are looking to get at least seven of those. Only six this year, as it happens, and three away, but it was still enough. That's why we set up the way that we do away from home - one point is, in almost every case, an acceptable return. If the rules said you only got a point for a score drawn, it would, obviously, be very different.

It's never going to find favour with the "go out there and get at them" types, but over the course of a season, it's an approach that will lead to a fairly narrow range of likely points totals and only in the worst-case scenario will it be enough to get relegated. The more attacking you are from the start, the wider the range of possible final totals, and it brings in more outcomes where you end up on the wrong side of the line.

I mentioned Watford because it was a standout example of a team not getting all that its performance deserved, one of the most striking for any team all season, in fact. Several more, both for and against, were less clear-cut given how difficult it is to score in the first place.

It's true about the fine margins, but one of the ways to try to even things out is to spend money. Huddersfield didn't, we did. I'm not suggesting most of them have looked like money well spent so far, Bernardo & Bissouma have made at least a bit of a difference on occasions and are only likely to improve with time. Montoya's been pretty solid too, but no-one seems to notice defenders.

Also reckon a fully fit and in-form Pascal Gross would have been worth at least another point or two over the year, but there's no way to be sure, of course. Makes life very hard for a manager when a key talent like that is missing, they are all but impossible to replace.

 

[raymondo]

It started to go wrong shortly after the Big Bang...

 

[Mtoto]

Beat me to it - think Mtoto has forgotten it too. Next year with VAR, certainly Cardiff's winning goal would not stand.
But that's 1 defeat in 20.

All 3 of the 1-0 wins in October had more than their fair share of luck to them (I posted the stats in another thread so can't be arsed to do it again).
Huddersfield home and Palace away, while both won with good goals, had more than a share of luck.
About the only win that I can remember that was absolutely nailed-on deserved was Manchester United at home in August - why, because we went for them from the first whistle.

A share of luck perhaps, but is it a "fair" share if the defence has done its job and kept a clean sheet? It's not quite the same as winning by the odd goal in five.

I'll give you Newcastle, that was a bit of a burglary, but the xG for both West Ham and Wolves was around 1.5 versus 1 for us - an amalgam of chances that Dunk n Duffy et al managed to deal with.

 

[Weststander]

A poor squad (PL level), with very conservative tactics, finally came unstuck.

Even CH admitted we’d been outplayed in the 3 wins in the autumn.

A lack of pace, next to no creativity, no players supporting the striker, fullbacks with mistakes in them, low possession stats ... it was shite in the vast majority of matches.

 

[Weststander]

Beat me to it - think Mtoto has forgotten it too. Next year with VAR, certainly Cardiff's winning goal would not stand.
But that's 1 defeat in 20.

All 3 of the 1-0 wins in October had more than their fair share of luck to them (I posted the stats in another thread so can't be arsed to do it again).
Huddersfield home and Palace away, while both won with good goals, had more than a share of luck.
About the only win that I can remember that was absolutely nailed-on deserved was Manchester United at home in August - why, because we went for them from the first whistle.

And CP at home.

 

[Mtoto]

Beat me to it - think Mtoto has forgotten it too. Next year with VAR, certainly Cardiff's winning goal would not stand.
But that's 1 defeat in 20.

All 3 of the 1-0 wins in October had more than their fair share of luck to them (I posted the stats in another thread so can't be arsed to do it again).
Huddersfield home and Palace away, while both won with good goals, had more than a share of luck.
About the only win that I can remember that was absolutely nailed-on deserved was Manchester United at home in August - why, because we went for them from the first whistle.

Everton 1-0? In all, we took 17 points from teams that finished top half, don't think that's too shabby tbh.

 

[Weststander]

One note from all of this was the constant talking up the opposition fair enough to a degree but it was every game who ever it was and it felt like we were only good to try and stop the opposition from scoring not impose our game on them we have some quality players too

CH actually explained just that at a meeting with fans in March. He:
a) Praises the strengths of the opposition to the media. IMO this is common, and prevents opposing managers further motivating with “Look what he said about you lot”.
b) Whilst in the build up to games, works on a game plan and on motivation as to why we’re going to win. [Obviously easier said than done in the PL]?