What's the problem? Players, coaches or just a losing mentality?

[HseagullsH]

I don't get it. I really don't.

Now I am one of the few that thinks our players individually, are one of the best teams in the league. But why is it that every player we buy, seems to go majorly downhill since Wilkins sacking.

Virgo - Sold from us for £1.5 million in 2005. A spell at Celtic and championship clubs on loan before coming back here. Nearing peak age for a centre half. Considered a good coup from Adams getting him back.
Verdict - Isn't in first team. Proving a very poor player for us this year.

Dickinson - Bought from Derby for £750k. Didn't get his chance at Derby, but obviously a good footballer. Bought by us for 300k.
Verdict - Doesn't make our first team, proving to be very average for us.

Navarro - Yes, released by MK Dons. But player 77 times for them in two years for MK. Played a big part in MK coming 1st in League Two, followed by 3rd in League One. On paper, easily good enough for relegation candidates in League One. Around peak age, at 28.
Verdict - Awful for Brighton, doesn't offer the bite in the centre that he supposedly did for MK. Perhaps being used a little out of position last few games, but overall - Another flop.

Elphick - Still only 22. At 20, won player of the season for us at only 20 years old. Ridiculously young for a centre half. Was linked with top end championship clubs.
Verdict - Now appears to be a very average defender, many people saying he isn't good enough for us (don't agree though..)

Dean Cox - Promised so much. A key player in Wilkins team that came 7th at only 19/20 years old.
Verdict - Not good enough now. Possibly one of the players out of the door in January.

Craig Davies - Viewed as an exciting sign, bags of talent. Been scoring goals at Stockport and Oldham that season. Very young.
Verdict - Total flop so far. 1 goal in a year. Classed as an impact sub for the last 10-15 minutes at most these day


I am not going to go through more, but the list is endless.
I simply can't buy the fact that our players aren't good enough, and that new signings in January will make all the difference.
Who are we going to sign that's better? Nearly all our players have played at championship or regularly at the top end of league one. They are nearly at the peak of their careers in terms of age...

I just don't see where we are going if we bring in a whole new set of players in January again...

So what is it then? Is it the players individual ability? Is it the coaching? Is it simply we have a losing mentality we can't change?

 

[Withdean Wanderer]

Here we go - step forward Charlie Oatway, you're about to become the replacement NSC scapegoat for Dean White and Bob Booker.

Enjoy.

 

[jordanseagull]

I think Davies would be a very good player for us if given a good chance under a good manager. A better striker than Murray and Dickinson. Always looks very lively and will do something. Sorry, my opinion.

 

[HseagullsH]

I think Davies would be a very good player for us if given a good chance under a good manager. A better striker than Murray and Dickinson. Always looks very lively and will do something. Sorry, my opinion.

Not saying that. I am saying that everyone always says the players must go, aren't good enough etc, when there is no doubt that they aren't bad players and we have a strong squad.

I am saying our problems lie much deeper than the players, and have done for the past few years...

Here we go - step forward Charlie Oatway, you're about to become the replacement NSC scapegoat for Dean White and Bob Booker.

Enjoy.

As usual, you read the thread title, and very little else.

I never mention Charlie Oatway, I never mentioned Bob Booker, I never mentioned Dean White.

I am making a point that we can't continually say the players aren't good enough, then have a mass clearout every year.

 

[Withdean Wanderer]

I think Davies would be a very good player for us if given a good chance under a good manager. A better striker than Murray and Dickinson. Always looks very lively and will do something. Sorry, my opinion.

Right, seriously, log-off now, you're a complete and utter piss take.

Forster - been scoring shit loads of goals for over a decade now.

Murray - has a 1 in 2 scoring average for us (roughly) and banged them in for Rochdale.


Craig Davies - has never scored regularly for anyone, Slade didn't play him after realising he was shit, Poyet has obviously done similar.

Good f***ing grief.

 

[Withdean Wanderer]

Not saying that. I am saying that everyone always says the players must go, aren't good enough etc, when there is no doubt that they aren't bad players and we have a strong squad.

I am saying our problems lie much deeper than the players, and have done for the past few years...



As usual, you read the thread title, and very little else.

I never mention Charlie Oatway, I never mentioned Bob Booker, I never mentioned Dean White.

I am making a point that we can't continually say the players aren't good enough, then have a mass clearout every year.

You didn't have to name the coaches, but you say that the players have been underperforming for the past few years, but that we can't get rid of thm!!

Well, the current coaches have had a month to work with the players, and barely had a full week without a game. The previous coaches were sacked.

If we "can't have a mass clearout of the players" then you're presumably wanting a clearout of the "bad" coaches, despite the fact that we've just had one.

Basically, your entire point is shit.

 

[theonesmith]

You didn't have to name the coaches, but you say that the players have been underperforming for the past few years, but that we can't get rid of thm!!

Well, the current coaches have had a month to work with the players, and barely had a full week without a game. The previous coaches were sacked.

If we "can't have a mass clearout of the players" then you're presumably wanting a clearout of the "bad" coaches, despite the fact that we've just had one.

Basically, your entire point is shit.

Spot on

 

[HseagullsH]

You didn't have to name the coaches, but you say that the players have been underperforming for the past few years, but that we can't get rid of thm!!

Well, the current coaches have had a month to work with the players, and barely had a full week without a game. The previous coaches were sacked.

If we "can't have a mass clearout of the players" then you're presumably wanting a clearout of the "bad" coaches, despite the fact that we've just had one.

Basically, your entire point is shit.

I was merely throwing out the question of what is the actual problem.

I think the players are good enough. I certainly don't doubt Poyet as a manager, and Tarrico as a coach.
I think the whole mentality at the club needs to change, not the personal.

I just feel that changing the manager every year, and then clearing the squad out and virtually starting again, isn't going to change anything.

 

[driller]

Maybe it is changing?!
but with the current coaches only being in place for a month your thread is pointless. So nob off

 

[HseagullsH]

Maybe it is changing?!
but with the current coaches only being in place for a month your thread is pointless. So nob off

Why the abuse? Finally someone makes a THREAD not blaming the players, and yet I get shot down.

Yes, it is too early to tell, and I am sure that Poyet will get it right.

More a point to NSC who blame the players week in week out, "they're all shit, we need a clearout" etc

Poyet has never blamed the ability of his squad, so lets hope he doesn't break up the team again, and makes the few minor changes that will hopefully turn things around (Leader at the back, left winger)

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Of course you got shot down. These are people who can moan about any given subject, and flame you for any comment you can make. These are miserable people, HSeagullsH. Very miserable people in some cases.

I completely agree with what you're saying. We've got good individuals, but we're not a good team. Why? As a side we're not as good as the individual parts of it, but it's the tactics I think. Today we seemed like a side told to go out and play well individually, get the ball on the ground and see what happens. We lacked organisation and tactical nous, and we were beaten by a side with clear tactics and with good organisation all over the pitch. That comes with stability, stability we can only dream of.

 

[withdeanwombat]

Now,now.




Fairly obviously it isn't the players.

It's that Dean Oatway,innit.

 

[beorhthelm]

Basically, your entire point is shit.

does it take practice to be such a cock? what in the OP is actually wrong? we have assembled a squad that has some quite usful and proven players, yet here we are 3 points adrift in the relegation zone. the question is, whats gone wrong? you are the one mentioning Oatway, and as much as we all admire his leadership on the pitch, i struggle to think of him as coaching the nuances of tactics, ball control etc. the other options are Poyet doesnt know what he's doing or the whole first team are only league two standard. if that is the case, why did we change managers? are you resigned to relegation?

 

[Silent Bob]

I think you should take assumptions about signings of players most people will never or hardly have seen play with a pinch of salt. Saying things like Craig Davies was viewed as a good signing - why? His record was poor. Dickinson as far as I can tell is not "obviously a good footballer".
People are generally positive about signings when they come because whining before there is any reason to is senseless. There's no guarantee that they are actually any good.

Fact is a large number of players aren't very good, most beyond the first 11 really. The coaching has been a problem, and it takes a long time to turn that around, and losing can be a habit - I think if Poyet had come in a month earlier things would be a lot better, I said at the time this run of fixtures was difficult and we had to pick up points beforehand. We didn't.

 

[jordanseagull]

Right, seriously, log-off now, you're a complete and utter piss take.

Forster - been scoring shit loads of goals for over a decade now.

Murray - has a 1 in 2 scoring average for us (roughly) and banged them in for Rochdale.


Craig Davies - has never scored regularly for anyone, Slade didn't play him after realising he was shit, Poyet has obviously done similar.

Good f***ing grief.

Didn't mention Forster, Withdean Wanderer.

I think Davies can go places. Sorry, but I do.

I think that Navarro is awful, but I dont go to Poyet and start telling him that he is a pisstake, good f***ing grief, and all that lark. You are only as important as the next man, so don't come on here thinking that your view is more important than mine. By all means disagree with me, that's part of a discussion board. But try, just try, not to be so rude.

 

[BN1]

in jan i think we will see alot of action i think from the current squad 5 players will leave:-

COX
VIRGO
HOYTE(Back to arsenal)

Plus two others

 

[RexCathedra]

It was the manager six weeks ago. Are you sure it's not the manager now?

 

[BN1]

:US::US:

It was the manager six weeks ago. Are you sure it's not the manager now?

the players ARE SHI* :US::US:

 

[Barnham Seagull]

Lack of concentration at the back and their inability to learn from mistakes coupled with an average team in front of them.

 

[RexCathedra]

Interesting...

:US::US:

the players ARE SHI* :US::US:

Back then I said "The problem is on the pitch. The problem is always on the pitch and was laughed at for my pains.

There's no making some people happy.