[Politics] What’s the best way to heal the North/South divide?

[Mackenzie]

I’m not sure, but I expect it’ll involve outside toilets.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Are you being facetious? BJ went to rub Labours noses in it. Not to thank anyone. Honestly, I don’t know where to begin - how gullible can you be? He’s a proven serial liar. Why are so many taken in by his ‘personality’

He JUST happened to end up in the metroplis that is Sedgefield - Tony Blair's old seat that's just turned blue. And he has the gall to say the healing process must start now, when in reality he was twisting the knife in an already dead corpse.

This is a reminder that Tories are hard-wired to hate Labour, which make the vote outcome all the more remarkable. It will end in tears.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think the 2017 Corbyn had something but the 2019 Corbyn manifesto was pie in the sky and his name and legacy will turn toxic, just as Blair has done.

I think people are desperate - 10 years of austerity, a fragile UK union, 4 years of Brexit stalemate and a complete breakdown of trust in British politics. I don't see Boris as the one to put this situation right either. We'll have to endure a fudged Brexit, more economic hardship and eating plenty of humble pie. Ultimately, I think the electorate will have a Blair 97 moment and elect a left of centre leader who may bring the country back together, but we may be looking at 2029 here.

 

[GT49er]

First of all, you didn't specify just the admin. The minister is the head of the dept so would need to have access to that office and the various heads of the various depts within the ministry. Or do you think the heads of those depts should all be based in your little 12 seater office?

Oh Jesus wept! How stupid are you? Really. There would be a minimal staff in the London Office - the others would be available on screens for all those 'flitting in and out' moments. For major meetings, if the minister didn't want to do it via video conferencing, he/she would have to travel, but most of the time quick Q&As could be done fine by video link.

Also, why do you single out office cleaners?

Because of the civil service ethic of 'more is better'; specifying 'including cleaners' prevents the totally disconnected from reality members of the Whitehall bubble interpreting '12' as, "Well, that must mean twelve permanent secretaries then........... each with their own secretary and PA, plus admin. staff, typists, messengers, tea ladies, a personnel section, security, cleaners, ancillary staff and **** knows what else". In other words, everyone that is working there at the moment. They won't be any more!
Twelve people at the London office - that means twelve bodies only, including permanent secretaries, office cleaners, everything; sort it out for yourself, but you can only employ twelve bodies, with no outside contractors, at the London site. The rest will be in the midlands or even further north; available on the phone or t'internet; get on with it.

I'm not coming back to this conversation again - if you really can't understand simple English and simple concepts there really is no point. Are you sure you voted remain? You seem a bit dim.................

 

[Horses Arse]

Echo your thoughts and sympathise. A principled man who wanted something better for those less fortunate in our society, to tackle climate change and less foreign wars was smeared relentlessly from nearly all sides of the media. I agree it is depressing that people saw Boris and thought "I want more of that".

I too would have paid more tax but when we are in a society where there are 300,000 on the streets, the NHS is struggling, and schools can't afford pens, I don't mind paying more!

All I would say is that Corbyn started a movement that isn't going away and will hopefully only get stronger with more a more politicised youth. With Brexit not an electoral factor anymore there is an opportunity for someone to further progressive ideas.

Subscribe and support new progressive media e.g Double Down News, The Tribune and Jacobin (US).

I really think it's gone - its not just this country that is disappearing into the abyss, Soviet Union, Brazil, USA also have lunatics running their asylum. People seem to have collective madness fueled by state controlled media. Really interesting interview with Peter Oborne on channel 4 (which will no doubt be squashed and controlled more in the coming years) who is a life long Tory but recognises what is happening.

Anything outside of mainstream media will have little effect. We are really screwed - it feels like we are heading towards something very very significant here that will have serious consequences for us all. Meanwhile, folk on here treat it like a football match where one side wins and the other loses.

The one thing coming out of all this that interests me are some Tories saying that they were lifelong Tories due to the parties "public duty, generosity, instinct to conserve what is good in our society, fairness" - perhaps that was part of the Tory party pre Thatcher but all I've seen is greed and care only for the wealthy. Very odd.

 

[Horses Arse]

So someone who was a fascist with fascist ideals who never changed their mind and went to their grave believing in Fascism, is someone you would like, yeah? You like Corbyn because of his views, not because he is principled. He may well be principled, but his principles are about as naive as an A level politics student.

An important point well made. However, the nativity is in not understanding the mindset of voters rather than what he was offering. It is akin to the abused returning to their abuser, they simply don't believe it can be better. I don't condemn him for that but it is frustrating that he couldn't see the importance of simple messages so that people could understand and get behind it.

Meanwhile we've got a cowardly liar in charge. Someone running scared from interviews and hiding in fridges winning through. Pretty bloody damning on the Labour party's performance over the last 5 years that they couldn't oust this pile of dog turd. Shocking.

 

[HH Brighton]

Probably because he actually has one in a sea of liars and charlatans lacking in any charisma or gravitas

and here lies the problem, 1 in 4 people appear to have this view and voted for this joker. I don't think the country will ever unite again.

 

[drew]

Lot of talk about having a northern leader.

Where were the following born?

1. Tony Blair
2. Gordon Brown
3. John Smith
4. Harold Wilson


Add in that Kinnock was Welsh so the same criteria for the North feeling left out will probably apply to the Welsh. Also, Foot was born in Plymouth, further from London than Manchester!

This north south divide is a smokescreen in that it is irrelevant from where the leader comes from, it is more important that they can lead, which quite patently, Corbyn couldn't do.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Not Parliament. Move Whitehall, or a big chunk of it - put three major ministries in the midlands and north (thus helping three areas, not just one). Home Office, Foreign Office and Department of Health would do. Give the respective ministers a small office in London (maximum staff of 12 - including office cleaners, no contractors), Install lots of tele-conferencing facilities, and of course give the minister and his chief aid a rail pass between London and his/her main office in Bolsover, Rochdale, Middlesbrough, wherever.

You do understand that if we just take the first of those departments and their minister, Home office and Home Secretary (some of this is from memory, so may have changed slightly) they have

Support Staff

1 Primary Private Secretary
2 Deputy PPS
3-5 Private Secretary
3-5 Assistant Private Secretary
1 Diary Manager
1 Office Manager
1 Media Officer
1 Press Officer
3 Correspondence Managers

Then, the senior Management team

Director of Immigration and Border Policy Directorate
Director BICS Strategy
Head of Illegal Migration, Identity Security and Enforcement Policy Unit
Head of Migration Policy
Head of Legal Strategy Team
Border and Visa Policy Unit
Head of Migration Advisory Committee Secretariat
Head of Asylum & Family Policy
Head of Free Movement and Migrant Criminality Unit
Head of Immigration, Strategy and Programme Unit
Head of EU Exit Immigraiton Policy
Director General, HM Passport Office
Chief Operating Officer, HM Passport Office
Director, Strategy & Change
Director, Customer and Digital Services
Director, Civil Registration and Deputy Registrar General
Director Passport Operations
Director, Transformation Delivery
Director Business Design and Planning
Director Security
Director Customer Strategy & Experience
Director, Commercial Delivery
Director General, Immigration Enforcement
Director of Crime & Enforcement
Director, Casework and Returns
Director, Intelligence and Immigration Crime
Director, Strategy and Transformation
Director, Immigration Compliance and Enforcement - London and South
Director, Immigration Compliance & Enforcement - North, Midlands and Wales
Director, Criminal Investigations and Central Operations
Head of Police Powers Unit
Head of Office Counter Extremism
Head of Fire Strategy and Reform Unit
Director, Crime
Head of Drug and Alcohol Unit & Drugs and Firearms Licensing Unit
Head of Modern Slavery Unit
Portfolio Director, Law Enforcement Technology Programmes
Director Strategic Centre for Organised Crime
Director National Security
Head of Heathrow Operations
Head of Intelligence
Head of Cyclamen, Border Systems

+200 others (I got bored at this point)

It's almost as if running a country is quite complicated. Now who would have thought that

Anyway, I'd be interested to know what 12 (including cleaners, no contractors) you think should be kept in London from that lot. Remember that, as a result of 10 years of austerity a lot of the regional Civil Service have been cut to save money, minimised and centralised for efficiency, and the long term leases on regional offices have been run out, but don't let facts get in the way of your brilliant idea

Oh Jesus wept! How stupid are you? Really. There would be a minimal staff in the London Office - the others would be available on screens for all those 'flitting in and out' moments. For major meetings, if the minister didn't want to do it via video conferencing, he/she would have to travel, but most of the time quick Q&As could be done fine by video link.


Because of the civil service ethic of 'more is better'; specifying 'including cleaners' prevents the totally disconnected from reality members of the Whitehall bubble interpreting '12' as, "Well, that must mean twelve permanent secretaries then........... each with their own secretary and PA, plus admin. staff, typists, messengers, tea ladies, a personnel section, security, cleaners, ancillary staff and **** knows what else". In other words, everyone that is working there at the moment. They won't be any more!
Twelve people at the London office - that means twelve bodies only, including permanent secretaries, office cleaners, everything; sort it out for yourself, but you can only employ twelve bodies, with no outside contractors, at the London site. The rest will be in the midlands or even further north; available on the phone or t'internet; get on with it.

I'm not coming back to this conversation again - if you really can't understand simple English and simple concepts there really is no point. Are you sure you voted remain? You seem a bit dim.................

Maybe after you've sorted out the civil service, you could turn your experience and expertise to the NHS and give us your plans for the restructuring of all Critical Dependency Units to ensure they are run efficiently

 

[Icy Gull]

and here lies the problem, 1 in 4 people appear to have this view and voted for this joker. I don't think the country will ever unite again.

You’d think there was a good guy to vote for from some of the reactions. They are all lying cheating shits so you takes your pick. There wasn’t a “good” option.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Surely we need a referendum first and then a protest, then a lot of dithering before we can even start to heal the north/south, I can see a hard border going in nicely around Watford, mind you I would probably vote to flatten Watford Zero altogether.

Personally, I am more concerned about the East/West divide.

 

[Two Professors]

You do understand that if we just take the first of those departments and their minister, Home office and Home Secretary (some of this is from memory, so may have changed slightly) they have

Support Staff

1 Primary Private Secretary
2 Deputy PPS
3-5 Private Secretary
3-5 Assistant Private Secretary
1 Diary Manager
1 Office Manager
1 Media Officer
1 Press Officer
3 Correspondence Managers

Then, the senior Management team

Director of Immigration and Border Policy Directorate
Director BICS Strategy
Head of Illegal Migration, Identity Security and Enforcement Policy Unit
Head of Migration Policy
Head of Legal Strategy Team
Border and Visa Policy Unit
Head of Migration Advisory Committee Secretariat
Head of Asylum & Family Policy
Head of Free Movement and Migrant Criminality Unit
Head of Immigration, Strategy and Programme Unit
Head of EU Exit Immigraiton Policy
Director General, HM Passport Office
Chief Operating Officer, HM Passport Office
Director, Strategy & Change
Director, Customer and Digital Services
Director, Civil Registration and Deputy Registrar General
Director Passport Operations
Director, Transformation Delivery
Director Business Design and Planning
Director Security
Director Customer Strategy & Experience
Director, Commercial Delivery
Director General, Immigration Enforcement
Director of Crime & Enforcement
Director, Casework and Returns
Director, Intelligence and Immigration Crime
Director, Strategy and Transformation
Director, Immigration Compliance and Enforcement - London and South
Director, Immigration Compliance & Enforcement - North, Midlands and Wales
Director, Criminal Investigations and Central Operations
Head of Police Powers Unit
Head of Office Counter Extremism
Head of Fire Strategy and Reform Unit
Director, Crime
Head of Drug and Alcohol Unit & Drugs and Firearms Licensing Unit
Head of Modern Slavery Unit
Portfolio Director, Law Enforcement Technology Programmes
Director Strategic Centre for Organised Crime
Director National Security
Head of Heathrow Operations
Head of Intelligence
Head of Cyclamen, Border Systems

+200 others (I got bored at this point)

It's almost as if running a country is quite complicated. Who would have thought it

Anyway, I'd be interested to know what 12 (including cleaners, no contractors) you think should be kept in London from that lot. Remember that, as a result of 10 years of austerity a lot of the regional Civil Service have been cut to save money, minimised and centralised for efficiency, and the long term leases on regional offices have been run out, but don't let facts get in the way of your brilliant idea




Maybe after you've sorted out the civil service, you could turn your expertise to the NHS and could give us your plans for the restructuring of all Critical Dependency Units to ensure they are run efficiently

That was an enormous number of asses for you to kiss.

 

[Triggaaar]

What’s the best way to heal the North/South divide?

War

 

[blue-shifted]

I think the 2017 Corbyn had something but the 2019 Corbyn manifesto was pie in the sky and his name and legacy will turn toxic, just as Blair has done.

I think people are desperate - 10 years of austerity, a fragile UK union, 4 years of Brexit stalemate and a complete breakdown of trust in British politics. I don't see Boris as the one to put this situation right either. We'll have to endure a fudged Brexit, more economic hardship and eating plenty of humble pie. Ultimately, I think the electorate will have a Blair 97 moment and elect a left of centre leader who may bring the country back together, but we may be looking at 2029 here.

That's the hope.

Though even if Labour can find a politician for the ages, and they can somehow put internal differences aside and coalesce around him or her, they will still get destroyed by the tabloid press.

Things have changed since the mid 90s. The proprietors know their interests are served by a government as far right as possible, so no matter how sensible, charismatic, able and inspirational a leader Labour can find they will have no choice but to fight against the full wrath of the right wing press working hand in glove with Tory central office.

And the simple fact is that the majority of people in this country believe what they say, no matter how demonstrably untrue

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I don't disagree with what you say but it still comes down to stupidity.

I can't let that comment pass - you are Emily Thornberry and I claim my £5.00

That's exactly why Labour lost the election, and why they will lose the next one unless they start reconnecting to those who voted leave.

How much time have you spent in the North - listening to those whose wages have fallen because of the huge influx of cheap imported, uncontrolled labour?

We all know we need immigration, the NHS would not survive without it, but we have to be able to chose those who come into the UK.

 

[Insel affe]

What’s the best way to heal the North/South divide?

What North / South divide ?

Do you mean the one the tabloids and champagne socialist media whores would have us believe in the South and those in North exists ?

We have the same issues, under funding in schools, NHS and general infrastructure, we have seaside towns in the north and south that are suffering, we have people being displaced by second home rich folk out pricing the locals in various parts of the land. We are all suffering the same effects of a lack of investment in inner city areas and suburbs.

They want us to believe one or the other is better off, because it fuels and serves the political aims at any given time, exactly the same as the Scotland wanting independence.

Divide and rule, and we are the Prawns (yes I mean prawns) in this game.

just my opinion.

 

[GOM]

It would have cost me. I don't think I'm loaded but have more money than I need currently. Certainly loaded compared to those about to suffer even more. But much less that the vile super rich that peddle selfish politics to the gullible fools that will suffer.Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

You strike me as a very angry person who manages to despise those who are better off than you and think those worse off are idiots and gullible fools.
Just remember you are not spouting any facts, just your opinions which are worth not a jot more or less than anyone else's.

 

[Horses Arse]

I can't let that comment pass - you are Emily Thornberry and I claim my £5.00

That's exactly why Labour lost the election, and why they will lose the next one unless they start reconnecting to those who voted leave.

How much time have you spent in the North - listening to those whose wages have fallen because of the huge influx of cheap imported, uncontrolled labour?

We all know we need immigration, the NHS would not survive without it, but we have to be able to chose those who come into the UK.

And with the blink of an eye we're back to immigration. What a surprise.

It's far from just the NHS that needs immigration by the way. The reason wages have fallen is due to the decimation of the industries that once thrived and they've voted in those that did that to them. But carry on, blame it on immigration. It's the easy way out and excuses the status quo

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

That's the hope.

Though even if Labour can find a politician for the ages, and they can somehow put internal differences aside and coalesce around him or her, they will still get destroyed by the tabloid press.

Things have changed since the mid 90s. The proprietors know their interests are served by a government as far right as possible, so no matter how sensible, charismatic, able and inspirational a leader Labour can find they will have no choice but to fight against the full wrath of the right wing press working hand in glove with Tory central office.

And the simple fact is that the majority of people in this country believe what they say, no matter how demonstrably untrue

https://www.statista.com/statistics/529939/uk-tabloid-newspaper-market-by-circulation/

I’m afraid you are a bit out of date with your received wisdom about the tabloid press. Whether you like it or not, people can make up their own minds and you need to start respecting their views. Intellectual snobbery will not change peoples minds on Labour any more than it did on the EU.

 

[Horses Arse]

You strike me as a very angry person who manages to despise those who are better off than you and think those worse off are idiots and gullible fools.
Just remember you are not spouting any facts, just your opinions which are worth not a jot more or less than anyone else's.

Not angry. Just very disappointed at the state of this country with so many being so gullible.