[Albion] What was the worst ref decision today?

[Bodian]

There are two different questions being asked here.

The thread title asks about the worst ref decision. The poll asks about the worst decision, which I'd take as being a combination of ref and subsequent VAR.

So, for me the worst *REF* decision was the Dunk non-penalty.

Attwell, to his credit, was pretty much perfectly-placed for both big penalty shouts, but we know he gave neither. I'm pretty much always willing to forgive an on-field ref for getting it wrong as they have a split-second single-angle full-speed view of top-class athletes who spend the entire game trying to con them.

So, I could see how he may not have given the Mitoma penalty in real-time.

I don't see how he could have missed the blatant two-handed pull on Dunk's shirt as he attempted to run onto an incoming cross. There's no player fakery possible there, it's obvious and blatant.

However, once you bring VAR into play, ie taking a more holistic view of a decision, then the Mitoma one is equally unfathomable. The VAR official would have had time to review multiple angles at multiple speeds, pretty much all of which would have shown it was an obvious foul. How he did not intervene is almost impossible to understand.

The only thing I can think of with the Dunk one is that he had been made aware of / was aware of Dunk's cheeky step on Romero's toe immediately beforehand (the one that made him go down in absolute agony) and had that in the back of his mind. I know two wrongs don't make a right - but maybe it was a sort of 'you got away with that one, so I'm not giving you anything for this one'. Otherwise....I don't know.

 

[Triggaaar]

You may only pick one.

You might as well ask me to pick my favourite child. I'm not voting. The whole lot was ridiculous.


There is no evidence that the ball hit either Mitoma or MacAllister's arms, yet VAR overrule one on-field decision, and not the other - both to disallow our goals. It's madness.

And all 3 penalties should have been given. Lenglet touched the ball with his hand, and his arm was in a very unnatural position - unless the sport was wrestling.

 

[AlexBH]

I’m not surprised they didn’t give a penalty for shirt pulling. It’s one of those unspoken laws of the game or when the rules in place are ever used properly whereby 9 out of 10 times a defending player gets away with a shirt pull in the box, yet if the referee gives a penalty for a shirt pull VAR would never overturn it. That’s the PGMOL for you- lots of money, lots of idiots and selective use of the rules.

 

[amexer]

Soon get over unjust results like Fulham but yesterday was different and still so much on my mind. So many but Mitoma penalty because it would have put us 2-1 up has to be the most crucial

 

[Acker79]

• Alexis/Welbeck goal disallowed - correct decision within the law. Just because 'you' as a brighton fan think the footage is inconclusive, doesn't mean the officials can't be confident
• Lenglet handball non-penalty - I've not seen this one, but can appreciate that there is a degree of subjectivity to intent, natural position of the arm, etc. so not ready to chalk this up as an error until I see it.
• Peresic booking not being a red - Not convinced this was enough to be so obvious a red that it is an error not to give it. I think we would have plenty of people on here arguing against a red to one of our players for an identical challenge.

There are some decisions where it is simply subjectivity, and that the decision made, while not the one we would make, not the one the group of ex-pros in the TV studio would make, but most referees can understand why the ref made that call (even if they might not make it themselves).

I'm probably wasting my time writing this, and likely to get shouted down by people, but I think we need to not muddy the water between unpopular, but arguable subjective decisions, and actual wrong decisions.

If we include the subjetive calls lots of other clubs will dismiss our complaints because they will all have similar lists, officials will dismiss our claims of victimhood, or conspiracy or incompetence when they can explain away so many of ou complaints.

There are enough actual errors being made to our detriment that we don't need to inflate the list.

 

[Berty23]

• Alexis/Welbeck goal disallowed - correct decision within the law. Just because 'you' as a brighton fan think the footage is inconclusive, doesn't mean the officials can't be confident
• Lenglet handball non-penalty - I've not seen this one, but can appreciate that there is a degree of subjectivity to intent, natural position of the arm, etc. so not ready to chalk this up as an error until I see it.
• Peresic booking not being a red - Not convinced this was enough to be so obvious a red that it is an error not to give it. I think we would have plenty of people on here arguing against a red to one of our players for an identical challenge.

There are some decisions where it is simply subjectivity, and that the decision made, while not the one we would make, not the one the group of ex-pros in the TV studio would make, but most referees can understand why the ref made that call (even if they might not make it themselves).

I'm probably wasting my time writing this, and likely to get shouted down by people, but I think we need to not muddy the water between unpopular, but arguable subjective decisions, and actual wrong decisions.

If we include the subjetive calls lots of other clubs will dismiss our complaints because they will all have similar lists, officials will dismiss our claims of victimhood, or conspiracy or incompetence when they can explain away so many of ou complaints.

There are enough actual errors being made to our detriment that we don't need to inflate the list.

I assume if there was conclusive evidence then they would share it. I have not yet seen an angle which shows the ball definitely hit the arm. They can be as confident as they like but it is not conclusive unless it is proven. This is not a balance of probabilities thing.

 

[Bodian]

• Alexis/Welbeck goal disallowed - correct decision within the law. Just because 'you' as a brighton fan think the footage is inconclusive, doesn't mean the officials can't be confident
• Lenglet handball non-penalty - I've not seen this one, but can appreciate that there is a degree of subjectivity to intent, natural position of the arm, etc. so not ready to chalk this up as an error until I see it.
• Peresic booking not being a red - Not convinced this was enough to be so obvious a red that it is an error not to give it. I think we would have plenty of people on here arguing against a red to one of our players for an identical challenge.

There are some decisions where it is simply subjectivity, and that the decision made, while not the one we would make, not the one the group of ex-pros in the TV studio would make, but most referees can understand why the ref made that call (even if they might not make it themselves).

I'm probably wasting my time writing this, and likely to get shouted down by people, but I think we need to not muddy the water between unpopular, but arguable subjective decisions, and actual wrong decisions.

If we include the subjetive calls lots of other clubs will dismiss our complaints because they will all have similar lists, officials will dismiss our claims of victimhood, or conspiracy or incompetence when they can explain away so many of ou complaints.

There are enough actual errors being made to our detriment that we don't need to inflate the list.

Alexis/Welbeck goal - no-one has yet seen anything that would have given the officials a reason to be 'confident'. So, until we do...
Lenglet - his arm went out to full stretch and basically lightly punched the ball.
Peresic - I agree.

 

[amexer]

can anybody put up the Lenglet incident

 

[5Ways Gull]

There's no "left home and headed for Tottenham stadium" option.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Fatally flawed poll in that it's not multi-choice. Tho voted Mitoma penalty. Obviously

 

[dwayne]

Maccalister I think was handball

 

[Bodian]

Maccalister I think was handball

But that's after it came off his hip - so the ball is in front of, and past, the arm you can see there?

 

[lawros left foot]

Maccalister I think was handball

The ball looks massive in that photo, so, it is obviously not at the point of contact with MacAllisters body.

You can’t use it definitive proof, either for or against.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Maccalister I think was handball

White blob in front of orange blob

 

[Rookie]

Alexis/Welbeck goal disallowed - correct decision within the law. Just because 'you' as a brighton fan think the footage is inconclusive, doesn't mean the officials can't be confident

Strongly disagree.
The ref gave it as a goal. If the VAR was not confident or the footage was inconclusive then the goal must stand. I have yet to see a picture or video showing the ball hit his hand, every view seems to show it hit his hip and if there is no view which shows it conclusively hitting his hand then the goal should have stood.

 

[GT49er]

Strongly disagree.
The ref gave it as a goal. If the VAR was not confident or the footage was inconclusive then the goal must stand. I have yet to see a picture or video showing the ball hit his hand, every view seems to show it hit his hip and if there is no view which shows it conclusively hitting his hand then the goal should have stood.

Exactly. There wasn't enough 'clear and obvious' evidence to justify overturning the on-field decision - or at least none has been shown yet.

 

[Deadly Danson]

• Alexis/Welbeck goal disallowed - correct decision within the law. Just because 'you' as a brighton fan think the footage is inconclusive, doesn't mean the officials can't be confident

It's the correct decision ONLY if they have proof beyond ANY doubt that the ball touched his hand. If they have that then they should publish it. If there is proof then, annoying though it would be, under the law the goal has to be chalked off.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

The ball looks massive in that photo, so, it is obviously not at the point of contact with MacAllisters body.

You can’t use it definitive proof, either for or against.

Should be pretty easy to instigate a rule that says if a player has their back to the ball, then they have very little awareness of what their arms are doing

 

[amexer]

One should not get to this stage of season and most supporters still dont understand VAR. Yesterday so many of these decisions seemed very easy so how on earth can they get it wrong. One quick look at Mitoma penalty must have shown his foot was trod on. Never clear proof ball hit Macs hand and one clip showed clearly hit his hip. Replay of Mitomas goal clearly showed hit his sleeve which is not off side.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

One should not get to this stage of season and most supporters still dont understand VAR. Yesterday so many of these decisions seemed very easy so how on earth can they get it wrong. One quick look at Mitoma penalty must have shown his foot was trod on. Never clear proof ball hit Macs hand and one clip showed clearly hit his hip. Replay of Mitomas goal clearly showed hit his sleeve which is not off side.

Hand ball even