[Albion] "What the hell have we signed Duffy for?"

[Blue Valkyrie]

Injury list of March, Rosenior, Kayal is still significant though.

Towell, LuaLua.

We are 5 men down out of our squad of 26 ( including coach Casper ).

 

[hans kraay fan club]

How old is Goldson? I assume younger than Dunk and Duffy, so still with many many years of top class football ahead. He can afford to be patient and seems mature enough to know that.

It does feel like that, I agree - but actually the three of them are all (more or less) the same age (24).

 

[highflyer]

It does feel like that, I agree - but actually the three of them are all (more or less) the same age (24).

Ah ok, I'd assumed a bit younger. Still, as a group, three of the best AND youngest in the division I'd imagine.

 

[crabface]

You dont think of Duffy being 24, when he is rising in the air above everyone and hammering a header as far away from the goal as is physically possible.

We have a wealth of young CB talent.

 

[mreprice]

It's a masterstroke. Completely evident to me that there are two specifics we had problems with last year where Duffy improves us

- Defending set pieces.
- Against route one teams.

This hits the nail on the head. While most of us thought Dunk/Goldson were brilliant, CH decided he needed to fix this problem. Well done.

 

[crabface]

Towell, LuaLua.

We are 5 men down out of our squad of 26 ( including coach Casper ).

I dont think we will see any more of Lua Lua even when fit, I dont think Chris will have been to happy with his tweet at the close of the transfer window.

Plus with Skalak, Knockhert, Murphy and March to return he is along way down the pecking order.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

So, Shane Duffy has been excellent for us and our back 5 is the strongest in the league. That's an opinion backed up with the statistics. But the after timing in this thread is hilarious, and also I think people are deliberately misrepresenting what was being said at the time we signed him. The point that I was making at the time was that we were going to have Connor Goldson, an excellent player with a big future, and Uwe Hünemeier who has played in the top level in Germany, sitting on the bench. It's a waste of talent and it's also a fairly significant waste of money when you think that we ALSO have Ben Hall, Ben White and Tom Dallison in the Development Squad who can step in, AND Bruno who proved himself more than capable at centre back.

If we're going to talk about living within our means, not doing a Bournemouth (which a lot of people got very emotional about, by the way) and buying our way out of the league, then we can't talk about spending £4million to strengthen our already strongest individual position on the pitch. We are now in a position whereby Hall and White haven't got a chance of getting in, however good or promising they are, and Dallison will probably never play for us now. Don't get me wrong, although I'm sure people will deliberately spin my comments, it's clear that Duffy has fit in perfectly and in our strong defensive unit he's smashing. Absolutely smashing, he's heading it and kicking it all over the place, he's been very impressive. But he's added to the club's debt with the transfer fee and his wages, plus we have two top centre backs sitting around twiddling their thumbs - or throwing darts, in Uwe's case.

The bottom line is that he's been excellent for us so far. But there's a bigger picture and a wider context to the original thread about Duffy which is being deliberately ignored in favour of, "I was right all along!".

 

[Simster]

So, Shane Duffy has been excellent for us and our back 5 is the strongest in the league. That's an opinion backed up with the statistics. But the after timing in this thread is hilarious, and also I think people are deliberately misrepresenting what was being said at the time we signed him. The point that I was making at the time was that we were going to have Connor Goldson, an excellent player with a big future, and Uwe Hünemeier who has played in the top level in Germany, sitting on the bench. It's a waste of talent and it's also a fairly significant waste of money when you think that we ALSO have Ben Hall, Ben White and Tom Dallison in the Development Squad who can step in, AND Bruno who proved himself more than capable at centre back.

If we're going to talk about living within our means, not doing a Bournemouth (which a lot of people got very emotional about, by the way) and buying our way out of the league, then we can't talk about spending £4million to strengthen our already strongest individual position on the pitch. We are now in a position whereby Hall and White haven't got a chance of getting in, however good or promising they are, and Dallison will probably never play for us now. Don't get me wrong, although I'm sure people will deliberately spin my comments, it's clear that Duffy has fit in perfectly and in our strong defensive unit he's smashing. Absolutely smashing, he's heading it and kicking it all over the place, he's been very impressive. But he's added to the club's debt with the transfer fee and his wages, plus we have two top centre backs sitting around twiddling their thumbs - or throwing darts, in Uwe's case.

The bottom line is that he's been excellent for us so far. But there's a bigger picture and a wider context to the original thread about Duffy which is being deliberately ignored in favour of, "I was right all along!".

I think you make some excellent points there. £4m WAS a huge amount of money to spend on a centre-back when that really was not an area we needed cover for compared to elsewhere. That said, we had given away too many goals from set pieces until now, so it has proved an excellent decision. I think your comments on the development squad are interesting - it doesn't suggest any of them are near enough the required level for now. I would also suggest that we have seen the last of Bruno as emergency centre-back. He won't be asked to fill-in in that position ever again.

 

[Bozza]

I dont think we will see any more of Lua Lua even when fit, I dont think Chris will have been to happy with his tweet at the close of the transfer window.

Plus with Skalak, Knockhert, Murphy and March to return he is along way down the pecking order.

Pretty sure, LuaLua would be a QPR player today had we managed to bring in another attacking player before the window SLAMMED shut.

 

[n1 gull]

So, Shane Duffy has been excellent for us and our back 5 is the strongest in the league. That's an opinion backed up with the statistics. But the after timing in this thread is hilarious, and also I think people are deliberately misrepresenting what was being said at the time we signed him. The point that I was making at the time was that we were going to have Connor Goldson, an excellent player with a big future, and Uwe Hünemeier who has played in the top level in Germany, sitting on the bench. It's a waste of talent and it's also a fairly significant waste of money when you think that we ALSO have Ben Hall, Ben White and Tom Dallison in the Development Squad who can step in, AND Bruno who proved himself more than capable at centre back.

If we're going to talk about living within our means, not doing a Bournemouth (which a lot of people got very emotional about, by the way) and buying our way out of the league, then we can't talk about spending £4million to strengthen our already strongest individual position on the pitch. We are now in a position whereby Hall and White haven't got a chance of getting in, however good or promising they are, and Dallison will probably never play for us now. Don't get me wrong, although I'm sure people will deliberately spin my comments, it's clear that Duffy has fit in perfectly and in our strong defensive unit he's smashing. Absolutely smashing, he's heading it and kicking it all over the place, he's been very impressive. But he's added to the club's debt with the transfer fee and his wages, plus we have two top centre backs sitting around twiddling their thumbs - or throwing darts, in Uwe's case.

The bottom line is that he's been excellent for us so far. But there's a bigger picture and a wider context to the original thread about Duffy which is being deliberately ignored in favour of, "I was right all along!".

I disagree about Duffy adding to the debt I actually think we could now sell him at a profit. He bought him for about 4mill I reckon we would make a significant profit on that investment

 

[Finchley Seagull]

So, Shane Duffy has been excellent for us and our back 5 is the strongest in the league. That's an opinion backed up with the statistics. But the after timing in this thread is hilarious, and also I think people are deliberately misrepresenting what was being said at the time we signed him. The point that I was making at the time was that we were going to have Connor Goldson, an excellent player with a big future, and Uwe Hünemeier who has played in the top level in Germany, sitting on the bench. It's a waste of talent and it's also a fairly significant waste of money when you think that we ALSO have Ben Hall, Ben White and Tom Dallison in the Development Squad who can step in, AND Bruno who proved himself more than capable at centre back.

If we're going to talk about living within our means, not doing a Bournemouth (which a lot of people got very emotional about, by the way) and buying our way out of the league, then we can't talk about spending £4million to strengthen our already strongest individual position on the pitch. We are now in a position whereby Hall and White haven't got a chance of getting in, however good or promising they are, and Dallison will probably never play for us now. Don't get me wrong, although I'm sure people will deliberately spin my comments, it's clear that Duffy has fit in perfectly and in our strong defensive unit he's smashing. Absolutely smashing, he's heading it and kicking it all over the place, he's been very impressive. But he's added to the club's debt with the transfer fee and his wages, plus we have two top centre backs sitting around twiddling their thumbs - or throwing darts, in Uwe's case.

The bottom line is that he's been excellent for us so far. But there's a bigger picture and a wider context to the original thread about Duffy which is being deliberately ignored in favour of, "I was right all along!".

I must admit to having this view at the time but I am willing to admit I was wrong now. I thought we'd be signing a centre back to compete for the positions but not be automatic first choice and was very surprised when we signed Duffy for the fee suggested.

However, the more he plays, the more it is clear that our centre back options weren't as good as we thought they were. We got bullied by teams last season (and even at the start of this season) and were really weak at set pieces. Duffy has completely changed this to the point where we have an amazing defensive record. As others have said on other threads, Middlesbrough and Burnley were above us last year because they conceded fewer goals (not because they scored more). Obviously the club realised this and decided to act. For example, I am confident last year's squad would have conceded under Sheffield Wednesday's barrage of attacks at 1-0 and then gone on to draw the game at best. This season Dunk and Duffy were clearing everything. We are so much more dominant at the back now and that is not a criticism of Goldson.

In terms of others developing, Dallison can't get a game at the moment at Cambridge so it is looking unlikely he will make it and White/Hall will get their chance if they develop. There are concerns over Huhnemeier's fitness and also aerial dominance in the Championship and so, if one of the young players develop quickly, it may well be him who makes way.

As for the debt comment, I don't see the issue. If Duffy helps us to promotion this season then the debt comment becomes irrelevant. If we don't go up, I'm sure a Premier League team will buy Dunk and then we have a ready made partnership with Duffy/Goldson. I don't understand what there is to complain about. From my point of view, I was surprised that we spent that much on a centre back but it has been proved a spectacularly correct decision already.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I think you make some excellent points there. £4m WAS a huge amount of money to spend on a centre-back when that really was not an area we needed cover for compared to elsewhere. That said, we had given away too many goals from set pieces until now, so it has proved an excellent decision. I think your comments on the development squad are interesting - it doesn't suggest any of them are near enough the required level for now. I would also suggest that we have seen the last of Bruno as emergency centre-back. He won't be asked to fill-in in that position ever again.

I agree, he's definitely made us a better team. He's wonderfully old fashioned, kicks it and heads it and that's what we needed. As someone else said in this thread, Burnley specifically targeted us from set pieces last season. Nobody can think we're an easy touch anymore because Duffy and Murray love defending and heading the ball. We have cured that problem.

I don't really think we're going to know what level they're at until they get a game. Ben White seems to be highly regarded, but now he's 5th/6th in the pecking order with Ben Hall presumably wondering why he turned down first team football in Scotland to have a year in our lovely training complex before being loaned out to League 1/2 and then having to find himself a club at that level prepared to give him games. Glen Rea being the classic example, he had to leave to play games because we don't play our Development Squad players but we're paying fees for them. We're paying them wages but getting nothing in return at the moment, unless the business model is to cover those costs by selling the odd player or two to the lower league teams.

I disagree about Duffy adding to the debt I actually think we could now sell him at a profit. He bought him for about 4mill I reckon we would make a significant profit on that investment

I agree that he could be sold for a profit. But you can say the same thing about Dunk, Goldson, Stephens, etc etc etc. We could have a firesale and put us massively in the black if we wanted to. But instead, we continued to invest heavily in the summer in the hope of doing a Watford/Leicester/Bournemouth - overspend, but get promotion and that's it, the millions in the Premier League will wipe out all debts and we'll be living large. I'm saying that a lot of people on here get very much on their high horse complaining at other teams doing it, but we've effectively done the exact same thing in the Duffy purchase.

 

[Simster]

Pretty sure, LuaLua would be a QPR player today had we managed to bring in another attacking player before the window SLAMMED shut.

I suspect it will prove to be a pity for Kazenga's career that JFH will be binned off at QPR well before January. I can't imagine there are many clubs he'll want to go to in order to kick start his career. He'd probably choose a London or home counties championship club and QPR are probably the only one where his presence would improve the squad.

I don't get any pleasure in seeing him pissed off being frozen out, but as has been said, he is nowhere near the first team these days. He does need to move on.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I must admit to having this view at the time but I am willing to admit I was wrong now. I thought we'd be signing a centre back to compete for the positions but not be automatic first choice and was very surprised when we signed Duffy for the fee suggested.

However, the more he plays, the more it is clear that our centre back options weren't as good as we thought they were. We got bullied by teams last season (and even at the start of this season) and were really weak at set pieces. Duffy has completely changed this to the point where we have an amazing defensive record. As others have said on other threads, Middlesbrough and Burnley were above us last year because they conceded fewer goals (not because they scored more). Obviously the club realised this and decided to act. For example, I am confident last year's squad would have conceded under Sheffield Wednesday's barrage of attacks at 1-0 and then gone on to draw the game at best. This season Dunk and Duffy were clearing everything. We are so much more dominant at the back now and that is not a criticism of Goldson.

In terms of others developing, Dallison can't get a game at the moment at Cambridge so it is looking unlikely he will make it and White/Hall will get their chance if they develop. There are concerns over Huhnemeier's fitness and also aerial dominance in the Championship and so, if one of the young players develop quickly, it may well be him who makes way.

As for the debt comment, I don't see the issue. If Duffy helps us to promotion this season then the debt comment becomes irrelevant. If we don't go up, I'm sure a Premier League team will buy Dunk and then we have a ready made partnership with Duffy/Goldson. I don't understand what there is to complain about. From my point of view, I was surprised that we spent that much on a centre back but it has been proved a spectacularly correct decision already.

I don't disagree with any of your post, because it's all perfectly logical and makes sense. I think we did make the team better by signing Duffy because I think this thread is a bit mischievous and suggesting that anyone who questioned the signing at the time was wrong to have done so, and that's not necessarily true.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

I agree that he could be sold for a profit. But you can say the same thing about Dunk, Goldson, Stephens, etc etc etc. We could have a firesale and put us massively in the black if we wanted to. But instead, we continued to invest heavily in the summer in the hope of doing a Watford/Leicester/Bournemouth - overspend, but get promotion and that's it, the millions in the Premier League will wipe out all debts and we'll be living large. I'm saying that a lot of people on here get very much on their high horse complaining at other teams doing it, but we've effectively done the exact same thing in the Duffy purchase.

They are incomparable. We spent £3.5 million apparently on one player. Derby, for example, bought a number of players for more than that (including Bradley Johnson for about £6 million). It seems to me that you are the one getting on your high horse without really having any reason to.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

I don't disagree with any of your post, because it's all perfectly logical and makes sense. I think we did make the team better by signing Duffy because I think this thread is a bit mischievous and suggesting that anyone who questioned the signing at the time was wrong to have done so, and that's not necessarily true.

The OP from Bozza seems to be more congratulating the club on a great signing rather than criticising others from what I see. It depends what you mean by questioned too. As I said in this thread, I was surprised we signed Duffy. I didn't question it as, to be honest, our recruitment team have done pretty well in the last couple of years so I trust them. However, there was a thread where people were criticising him after two games (and didn't that include you saying you felt he should be fifth choice centre back) and I do find some of the criticism Duffy got after two games odd.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

I suspect it will prove to be a pity for Kazenga's career that JFH will be binned off at QPR well before January. I can't imagine there are many clubs he'll want to go to in order to kick start his career. He'd probably choose a London or home counties championship club and QPR are probably the only one where his presence would improve the squad.

I don't get any pleasure in seeing him pissed off being frozen out, but as has been said, he is nowhere near the first team these days. He does need to move on.

Agreed. He's a brilliant player on his day but they come along very rarely. The six league games at the start of last season showed what he can do with a run in the side. However, due to injuries, he has not got near that form since and doesn't look likely to do so.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

They are incomparable. We spent £3.5 million apparently on one player. Derby, for example, bought a number of players for more than that (including Bradley Johnson for about £6 million). It seems to me that you are the one getting on your high horse without really having any reason to.

I don't think they are incomparable, the effect is the same. I'm not on a horse of any kind, I'm just putting forward the opposing point of view. There's no question Duffy has proven to be a good signing at this point, he's been excellent and our defence has been better than anyone else.

The OP from Bozza seems to be more congratulating the club on a great signing rather than criticising others from what I see. It depends what you mean by questioned too. As I said in this thread, I was surprised we signed Duffy. I didn't question it as, to be honest, our recruitment team have done pretty well in the last couple of years so I trust them. However, there was a thread where people were criticising him after two games (and didn't that include you saying you felt he should be fifth choice centre back) and I do find some of the criticism Duffy got after two games odd.

I wasn't referring to the original post. I absolutely said I'd have him as fifth choice centre back when everyone was fit, at the time that was my opinion and it was also a commentary on how unnecessary the signing was. Obviously, he's taken his chance with both hands and he keeps the shirt on merit, as Goldson did last season and that's how it should be. He's been excellent but his first two games were not, as I think most people would agree who saw them (as it goes, I didn't see either, extended highlights aside) but he's in full force now.

It's rare a player stays at the top level all season though, so it'll be interesting to see if this thread gets bounced if he does have a little wobble. All the praise he is getting now is deserved, but people are very quick to turn the cheek if it starts going the other way.

 

[Perkino]

I think peoples judgement was clouded by what was happening with him at Blackburn. Luckily our scouting dept didn't take much notice of that and looked at what he did in the Euros and also last season.

He has some brilliant attributes as well which leads to me think he might take over from Bruno as captain next year.

This, massive candidate for new captain

 

[B.W.]

What worries me and still does is only having 3 strikers at the club. We have been lucky so far with injuries and suspensions. This really needs addressing in Jan. Can't afford to take another 20 or so games gamble on just 3

Agreed... so true... it is the one and only position where we still clearly have a squad gap...