What should be done with the King Alfred?

[symyjym]

Ok, so you have just either gone into the petrol staton and took one of the little cards, or you are involved in the Arena project and are trying to get the general feeling of the public.

Im sorry, but there is no-way your "just a normal resident"

There is nothing to hide here, I thought my last post explains that I had drawn up this concept, and as you say I am trying to get the general feeling from the public. That was the point of getting cards displayed at the Texaco

If you think I'm a tycoon property developer, you would be wrong.

I am just a normal resident with a point of view that is shared by many. The only thing I have done is create a visualisation to go along with an idea.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Before you get investment there has to be a collective vision and concept. This doesnt cost.

There may not be much money available at the moment but that doesnt stop you from developing a vision and concept ready for when it is.

Thinking is freeeee and public awareness is freeeee

I'm sorry but if I am going to fight for a redevelopment scheme at the KA it will be to resurrect the Gehry/Karis proposal. This is by far the cheapest option, in fact it will cost nothing to the tax payer. The proposal is also complete, bar a few council votes and some legal work.

Any other scheme will be a waste of our money. And given the council have just wasted another million by writing off the debts to the The Old Market we cannot afford much more.

 

[brighton bluenose]

I'm sorry but if I am going to fight for a redevelopment scheme at the KA it will be to resurrect the Gehry/Karis proposal. This is by far the cheapest option, in fact it will cost nothing to the tax payer. The proposal is also complete, bar a few council votes and some legal work.

Any other scheme will be a waste of our money. And given the council have just wasted another million by writing off the debts to the The Old Market we cannot afford much more.

The Karis development was an over-blown monstrosity based on developers and bankers greed - simple as that!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The Karis development was an over-blown monstrosity based on developers and bankers greed - simple as that!

Or a residential development by one of the world's leading architects which would also deliver a state-of-the-art sports centre at no cost to the tax payer.

I am beginning to wonder if anything major will get built in this city. We are getting a reputation as a place where architects and builders cannot do business.

P.S. please dont mention Falmer as an example of something being built. Even when you have all the council on your side, and most of the public supporting you....it still took over a decade. It's hardly a good example.

 

[newhaven seagull 85]

knock it all down and build a top of the range olympic sized swimming pool.

 

[brighton bluenose]

Or a residential development by one of the world's leading architects which would also deliver a state-of-the-art sports centre at no cost to the tax payer.

I am beginning to wonder if anything major will get built in this city. We are getting a reputation as a place where architects and builders cannot do business.
QUOTE]

State of the art? With a non-Olympic size pool - I think not!

And what a load of cliched waffle about a 'reputation' where things dont get built - this bullshit is put about by the Simon Fanshawes of this world to try to scare us into accepting development thats either not wanted or unsuitable!

Have you been through the New England Quarter, seen the new library and the surrounding area or, yes, been up to the new stadium at Falmer - dont tell me nothing gets done. And as for developments taking time to come to fruition well sometimes thats just the nature of things when a development is proposed in a sensitive area or there are a lot of 'stakeholders' to consider!

As I wander around town I've seen plenty of new buildings going up over recent years The i360 was given the go ahead, as was the Karis KA and the redevelopment of the Brighton Centre and Churchill Sq - all failed or have been put on hold due to the recession.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

State of the art? With a non-Olympic size pool - I think not!

And what a load of cliched waffle about a 'reputation' where things dont get built - this bullshit is put about by the Simon Fanshawes of this world to try to scare us into accepting development thats either not wanted or unsuitable!

Have you been through the New England Quarter, seen the new library and the surrounding area or, yes, been up to the new stadium at Falmer - dont tell me nothing gets done. And as for developments taking time to come to fruition well sometimes thats just the nature of things when a development is proposed in a sensitive area or there are a lot of 'stakeholders' to consider!

As I wander around town I've seen plenty of new buildings going up over recent years The i360 was given the go ahead, as was the Karis KA and the redevelopment of the Brighton Centre and Churchill Sq - all failed or have been put on hold due to the recession.

Firstly, state-of-the-art does not relate to size, it is to do with technical aspect.

Second Simon Fanshaw represents Brighton Economic Partnership. He speaks on behalf of 34 partners who represent different aspects of the local economy. The view of this partnership is that Brghton is becoming a no-go zone for getting stuff done and they want it changed. It's not just his view.

Thanks for your list of new developments. You have pretty much listed every major development in Brighton in my life-time, and I'm 42. I concede that there are others e.g. the Clock Tower thing, the stuff by the Aquarium but these are low-grade and cheap replacements for crumbling buildings. I see these as little more than routine maintenance of the city. And I hope you dont start including Tesco in your argument.

As for the Karis KA. This got shelved when the developers asked for an extension of a planning milestone relating to raising the finance. The newly elected council spotted a technicality which enabled then to stop the development... and they took it; thus wasting the tax payer millions and about 5 years work. You will have to ask the council why they have lost momentum on the Centre. Standard Life are still backing it financially so it does not appear to be a financial issue.

Compared to other cities who had a variety of new and iconic buildings, art centres, transport systems, business centres, retail and general regeneration transforming and improving their lot during the 90s and 00s, (prior to the recession) we fall well short.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

How about some nice one and two bedroom flats in 'King Alfred Village' for buy-to-let Londoners with a starting price of £200K?

 

[brighton bluenose]

Firstly, state-of-the-art does not relate to size, it is to do with technical aspect.

Second Simon Fanshaw represents Brighton Economic Partnership. He speaks on behalf of 34 partners who represent different aspects of the local economy. The view of this partnership is that Brghton is becoming a no-go zone for getting stuff done and they want it changed. It's not just his view.

Thanks for your list of new developments. You have pretty much listed every major development in Brighton in my life-time, and I'm 42. I concede that there are others e.g. the Clock Tower thing, the stuff by the Aquarium but these are low-grade and cheap replacements for crumbling buildings. I see these as little more than routine maintenance of the city. And I hope you dont start including Tesco in your argument.

As for the Karis KA. This got shelved when the developers asked for an extension of a planning milestone relating to raising the finance. The newly elected council spotted a technicality which enabled then to stop the development... and they took it; thus wasting the tax payer millions and about 5 years work. You will have to ask the council why they have lost momentum on the Centre. Standard Life are still backing it financially so it does not appear to be a financial issue.

Compared to other cities who had a variety of new and iconic buildings, art centres, transport systems, business centres, retail and general regeneration transforming and improving their lot during the 90s and 00s, (prior to the recession) we fall well short.

Where would you put all these iconic buildings, art centres, transport systems etc etc that you would love to see without ripping the heart out of the city? Do we want to end up like Basingstoke or somesuch? There are clearly areas that need regenerating such as Preston Barracks, London Road/Open Market and Lewes Road area but it HAS to be of a scale and, to a certain extent pay architectural reference, to its surroundings.

 

[symyjym]

The Gehry KA included a minimalistic sports centre just as a token gesture.

There wasnt even an observation area on the Towers for the public to enjoy the view.

It would have served absolutely no purpose for the residents that live here.

Anyway he has used the same tower design for other projects so the one at the King Alfred would not have been unique. Just one of many!

More of the same towers

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Where would you put all these iconic buildings, art centres, transport systems etc etc that you would love to see without ripping the heart out of the city? Do we want to end up like Basingstoke or somesuch? There are clearly areas that need regenerating such as Preston Barracks, London Road/Open Market and Lewes Road area but it HAS to be of a scale and, to a certain extent pay architectural reference, to its surroundings.

I've named two. Much better buildings could have been put on the Tower Block/Quadrant and Concorde/Aquarium areas. I'd put such prominently located buildings to better use as well. At the very least I would not allow the shitty retail companies which currently occupy them. Maybe the transport system you enquire about could be the rapid transport system along the seafront which raises its head every so often? I've named three which simply make better use of existing city infrastructure, and do not rip the heart out of Brighton...simply just rebuilding and/or changing use. You did ask.

And I really dont understand why everything HAS (as you typed it) to be to 'scale' and 'reference' other architecture. Go to any modern city and you will see this is just nonsense. If it was the case, landmark buildings would never ever get built. And landmark buildings play a major part in regenerating and rejuvenating cities. Buildings need a sense of integration, engagement and architectural merit. This is very different to what you suggest 'HAS' to happen.


Next.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The Gehry KA included a minimalistic sports centre just as a token gesture.

More of the same towers

Just because the pool did not quite reach Olympic size you cannot refer to the entire sports centre as minimal.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Anyway he has used the same tower design for other projects so the one at the King Alfred would not have been unique. Just one of many!

So? I am not overly concerned it is not unique. He uses certain trademarks on a lot of his buildings. A lot of them use his famous curved metal sheeting: check Bilbao, Minneapolis and the theatre in LA.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

but it HAS to be of a scale and, to a certain extent pay architectural reference, to its surroundings.

This sentence, above all your others, disappoints me the most. It lacks vision and any sense of imagination or boldness. More of the same please...because I have not got the balls to do anything more interesting.

 

[symyjym]

So? I am not overly concerned it is not unique. He uses certain trademarks on a lot of his buildings. A lot of them use his famous curved metal sheeting: check Bilbao, Minneapolis and the theatre in LA.

I haven't got a problem with the Gehry design, but it was the wrong location.
If the Towers design was incorporated into the new Brighton Centre project it would have looked great overlooking the seafront, and could have been built even higher than proposed for the KA.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I haven't got a problem with the Gehry design, but it was the wrong location.
If the Towers design was incorporated into the new Brighton Centre project it would have looked great overlooking the seafront, and could have been built even higher than proposed for the KA.

I think it is asking a lot to incorporate a sports centre and the enabling development into a conference development. I do not believe it was the wrong location. Why do you think this?

Yes, it would have looked great overlooking the sea, which the KA plot does...and would have looked great pretty much at the end of my road.

 

[symyjym]

I think it is asking a lot to incorporate a sports centre and the enabling development into a conference development. I do not believe it was the wrong location. Why do you think this?.

I wasnt suggesting that the whole Gehry KA design would have been better at the Brighton Centre. Just the Towers would have been good at the BC, so this would not include the sports complex. This would have complemented the seafront, Churchill Square and would still be used as the BC is used today, for conferences.

The King Alfred area should soley be the site of a proper sports complex.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I wasnt suggesting that the whole Gehry KA design would have been better at the Brighton Centre. Just the Towers would have been good at the BC, so this would not include the sports complex. This would have complemented the seafront, Churchill Square and would still be used as the BC is used today, for conferences.

The King Alfred area should soley be the site of a proper sports complex.

Fair enough. And in theory yes the KA should be nothing more than a sports complex. But, the reality is that this will cost a lot of money. The Karis development would have delivered a sports complex free to the tax payer.

Maybe the towers would look okay on the Brighton Centre site. But, I thought they would look bloody awesome at the end of the lawns, a stand-alone landmark building linking up our city.

 

[symyjym]

With the KA Arena design, only just over half of the area is used, leaving the other half alvailable for flats, hospitality and commercial use.

KA Arena site view

There is still enough room for a tower if needed.

It wouldnt have to be funded by the tax payer, it could be named the Amex or Red Bull etc etc Arena?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

With the KA Arena design, only just over half of the area is used, leaving the other half alvailable for flats, hospitality and commercial use.

KA Arena site view

There is still enough room for a tower if needed.

It wouldnt have to be funded by the tax payer, it could be named the Amex or Red Bull etc etc Arena?

Are you suggesting the council sell the site to a private developer?