[Football] What makes a massive club a massive club?

[Wardy's twin]

if we can fix the definition of massive that would be good but irrespective of which metric is used then you need to separate the 'are' massive from the 'were' massive. Personally for me the only metric that counts in a quantitative meaningful way is current league position and even that fails when you compare clubs from other countries.

At this point in time we ARE the 7th most massive club in England.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Not a bad shout if we're looking for serious answers. Another possible would be teams that have spent 50 years or more in the PL/1st. division - so long as that wasn't too many years ago. 50 years up to and including the 1960s/70s but little or none since, like Preston for instance, doesn't count - the 'massiveness' is gone - like it's going now for Bolton, Wednesday, Forest and Sunderland unless they do something dramatic and sustained soon.
Liverpool, United, Everton, Arsenal, etc. - fully qualified massive!

Harry Pearson, in his brilliant book The Far Corner, said it all about clubs who retain a large support when in the lower divisions (but specifically about Sunderland): all it proves is that a lot of their fans are stupid enough to spend good money on watching sh*te.

 

[Perry's Tracksuit Bottoms]

You know those teams whose fans sing "you're only here for the (insert name of club that are probably below us in the table)"?

It's them isn't it?

 

[Weststander]

Big home and away followings, no matter the woes of the club, legions travelling from across the land and often from overseas. With a much wider and longstanding fanbase beyond that. Probably huge commercial income (not the contrived type from mates of the petro dollars owner).

It evolves over time. 8,923 watched a Stamford Bridge EPL game in 1994.

With colossal Arab or Abramovich type funding, Leeds, Everton and Newcastle could easily bridge that gap too. Their core support now is bigger than Chelsea’s 1992 to 1995. They’re based in vast conurbations, Leeds and Newcastle have their’s to themselves. Spuds have only won 2 titles in their entire history, the last 60 years ago, but they’ve just spent £1b on infrastructure and imho Levy (under severe fans pressure) will start spending big on players ….. eventually that should buy trophies and then the virtuous circle of a wider fanbase.

 

[Taybha]

We're actually massive in Japan.

 

[Icy Gull]

We're actually massive in Japan.

Nope, we are Big In Japan, not massive

 

[Hamilton]

Nope, we are Big In Japan, not massive

And that’s only tonight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Domestic support - attendances, city size, cultural status - global appeal, merchandising. Go to Malaysia and you'll find a lot of Manchester United "fans", not so many supporting Reading.

Alongside that and arguably secondary to it, is success. Leicester aren't a "massive" club, and they won the PL a few years back. You don't see millions of new plastic Leicester fans because they don't have the same branding and commercial appeal - and never will.

Brighton could win back to back PL's and CL's and not be as "big" a club as Newcastle, because of the cultural perception.

Perfect summation.

No one gives a shit about Leicester outside of Leicester and some outer lying districts of Bangkok, they’ll never establish a significant global brand. We could win everything for decades and never be anything but little old Brighton. In the footballing food chain the true test of bigness is your ability to cherrypick other club’s players and managers at will, without much fear of having your own picked off.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Agree it's a case of "are" Vs "were" as many massive clubs have become just big clubs like Derby, Weds, Sunderland, Middlesboro, etc. or even small clubs in the case of the likes of Accrington Stanley.

How about the measure being ground capacity - over 30k is big but over 40k is massive?
Of course, the ground must also be 90% full for 90% of home games to meet the massive fan-base criteria.

Away fan following is tricky, we could make the 3k easily IMHO but got no chance if the club decides NOT to take its 3k allocation :-(

I know when Brighton will have truly achieved massive status will be when you can walk into Sports Direct anywhere in the country and find our shirts on hangers for sale - that's MASSIVE

 

[chaileyjem]

Away fan following is tricky, we could make the 3k easily IMHO but got no chance if the club decides NOT to take its 3k allocation :-(

There's been multiple games - pre lockdown - where the club have taken a full allocation or less - normally northern away games - and hundreds of tickets have remained unsold.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Away fan following is tricky, we could make the 3k easily IMHO but got no chance if the club decides NOT to take its 3k allocation :-(

Still unrestricted view tickets as well as rv tickets available for any fan with any previous purchase history for Villa away for our next game.

 

[maffew]

For me a massive club was dependent on their shiny Panini sticker in the 80s. Oxford United and Wednesday were massive of course, Watford and Coventry too.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

A couple of points on size

1) Size matters. It's the ultimate expression of soft power, it's a significant, (but not the biggest) factor in recruiting players, managers and support staff. Their ego's love it. In the effect it has on recruitment, size perpetuates size.

2) Size changes over time. Brighton are bigger than they were 2, 5, 10 and 50 years ago. We've been growing relative to other teams with our success. Sunderland lose size every year they struggle. Size can be gained or lost by periods of sustained success or failure.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

It's all about the size of relative egos.

 

[Icy Gull]

A couple of points on size

1) Size matters. It's the ultimate expression of soft power, it's a significant, (but not the biggest) factor in recruiting players, managers and support staff. Their ego's love it. In the effect it has on recruitment, size perpetuates size.

2) Size changes over time. Brighton are bigger than they were 2, 5, 10 and 50 years ago. We've been growing relative to other teams with our success. Sunderland lose size every year they struggle. Size can be gained or lost by periods of sustained success or failure.

True, so why don’t I see Leicester, recent PL and FA Cup winners and decent history as anywhere near being massive?

 

[Happy Exile]

I know when Brighton will have truly achieved massive status will be when you can walk into Sports Direct anywhere in the country and find our shirts on hangers for sale - that's MASSIVE

A mate told me he saw bad fake versions of our shirts for sale while travelling in Asia which feels like one of the stages on the step to being considered a big club, as it implies both a local and tourist market for them.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

True, so why don’t I see Leicester, recent PL and FA Cup winners and decent history as anywhere near being massive?

But you see them as bigger than you did when they were in the relegation zone before winning the league.

These perceptions change glacially, but they do change.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I’m genuinely curious (as someone who knows nothing about football). I’m hearing a lot of supporters of various clubs lately informing the rest of us that their club is massive, and thereby really don’t deserve to find themselves in the unhappy positions they are in. So, do they have a point? And what is the definition of massiveness? Is it history? Age of club? Trophies won? Years spent in the top flight? Catchment area? Size of stadium? Wealth? If your club won loads of trophies in the first half of the 20th century, but none since, are you still massive? If you have won a few trophies/championships in the last decade or so, does that make you massive? Is Blackburn Rovers massiver than Leicester? Is Manchester United massiver that Manchester City? Well?

Being shown first on MOTD
Being awarded lots of penalties
Getting lots of "extra time"
Frequently changing managers
Loaning out lots of players

 

[Invicta]

A mate told me he saw bad fake versions of our shirts for sale while travelling in Asia which feels like one of the stages on the step to being considered a big club, as it implies both a local and tourist market for them.

More likely Sheffield Wednesday shirts with the wrong badge.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Agree it's a case of "are" Vs "were" as many massive clubs have become just big clubs like Derby, Weds, Sunderland, Middlesboro, etc. or even small clubs in the case of the likes of Accrington Stanley.

I don't think Derby were ever "massive", the reason Clough's considered a great manager is because he won the league (and European Cup) with clubs nobody expected to be achieving at anything like that level.