[Travel] What Is The Most Environmentally Friendly Vehicle?

[zefarelly]

If we all had horses instead of cars we'd be knee deep in shit and there's be no stars left.

 

[Brovion]

If we all had horses instead of cars we'd be knee deep in shit and there's be no stars left.

Certainly that first part is true. At the turn of the 20th century when nearly all city transport was horse-drawn the sheer amount of horse manure was a serious problem. There were articles in the papers saying things like unless the problem was solved by about 1925 every street in London would be at least knee-deep in horse sh1t. Fortunately of course the internal combustion engine came along and saved the day!

 

[Dave the OAP]

Certainly that first part is true. At the turn of the 20th century when nearly all city transport was horse-drawn the sheer amount of horse manure was a serious problem. There were articles in the papers saying things like unless the problem was solved by about 1925 every street in London would be at least knee-deep in horse sh1t. Fortunately of course the internal combustion engine came along and saved the day!

To be fair they grew fabulous roses though!

 

[OzMike]

A horse . . . .for one person, is extremely uneconomical.

probably the same amount of glues in a prius as a horse.

The wife can hitch up behind me if we go as a couple and if kids want to go out I can make a two wheel carriage from wood, a renewable resource.

 

[nicko31]

We want to change our 10 year old petrol car for something more environentally friendly. I do realise the most environmentally friendly thing would be not to own a car at all and where I live in London I do mainly cycle. I share the car with my wife and to see our families family in rural Sussex and Essex it's so much easier to drive. We only do about 5,000 miles per year.

I am not sure electric is the answer - what about the environmental impact and rare materials mined for electric batteries? Where does the electricity get generated? Is it renewable? However the carbon emissions from fossil fuel powered vehicles probably make them worse. It's confusing; I don't know much about cars apart from how to drive one!

Anyone know anything or where to start finding information? My biggest concerns are low impact on the environment and reliability. Cheers for any wisdom out there.

I guess if you sign up with a 100% renewable electricity tariff an electric car has got to be a pretty good move

 

[wellquickwoody]

but many of them are more expensive than a decent car . . .and you'll need lycra, a skid lid and lots of food to sustain you . . . arguably less economic.

And most cost far less.

No helmet or Lycra required, maybe a minor increase in food consumption but negated by better health and fitness.

 

[zefarelly]

I guess if you sign up with a 100% renewable electricity tariff an electric car has got to be a pretty good move

we've discussed it, at board level ( dining table)

a small electric V-hickle for most stuff . . . . and somethin bigger with towing capacity, for the race car and gig scenarios. which would only do 1-2000 miles a year.

have seriously been considering getting a Reliant scimitar as a classic come tow car. or a Jensen Interceptor, if I could afford one!

 

[Rugrat]

As others have said, plenty of car clubs in London and my daughter gets them from an app where people put there own cars on ... very cheap. Non peak train travel could also be used. I'd ditch car ownership in a heartbeat if I were in a big city and not using on a regular basis

 

[Justice]

I guess if you sign up with a 100% renewable electricity tariff an electric car has got to be a pretty good move

No guarantee you will get renewable energy at your wall socket though.

 

[rogersix]

We want to change our 10 year old petrol car for something more environentally friendly. I do realise the most environmentally friendly thing would be not to own a car at all and where I live in London I do mainly cycle. I share the car with my wife and to see our families family in rural Sussex and Essex it's so much easier to drive. We only do about 5,000 miles per year.

I am not sure electric is the answer - what about the environmental impact and rare materials mined for electric batteries? Where does the electricity get generated? Is it renewable? However the carbon emissions from fossil fuel powered vehicles probably make them worse. It's confusing; I don't know much about cars apart from how to drive one!

Anyone know anything or where to start finding information? My biggest concerns are low impact on the environment and reliability. Cheers for any wisdom out there.

Routinely maintaining your existing one

 

[BLOCK F]

We want to change our 10 year old petrol car for something more environentally friendly. I do realise the most environmentally friendly thing would be not to own a car at all and where I live in London I do mainly cycle. I share the car with my wife and to see our families family in rural Sussex and Essex it's so much easier to drive. We only do about 5,000 miles per year.

I am not sure electric is the answer - what about the environmental impact and rare materials mined for electric batteries? Where does the electricity get generated? Is it renewable? However the carbon emissions from fossil fuel powered vehicles probably make them worse. It's confusing; I don't know much about cars apart from how to drive one!

Anyone know anything or where to start finding information? My biggest concerns are low impact on the environment and reliability. Cheers for any wisdom out there.

Is price an issue?

 

[nicko31]

No guarantee you will get renewable energy at your wall socket though.

Well if know the company you are paying only deals with renewable power that's good enough for me. If everyone boycotted fossil fuel base utilities things would soon change. Been with Ecotricity for a decade, great company with sound ethics..

 

[nicko31]

we've discussed it, at board level ( dining table)

a small electric V-hickle for most stuff . . . . and somethin bigger with towing capacity, for the race car and gig scenarios. which would only do 1-2000 miles a year.

have seriously been considering getting a Reliant scimitar as a classic come tow car. or a Jensen Interceptor, if I could afford one!

I like that idea, cheap insurance on a classic and a car that will only go up in value. Problem is do you want your Jensen out in the rain and snow?

 

[beorhthelm]

Well if know the company you are paying only deals with renewable power that's good enough for me. If everyone boycotted fossil fuel base utilities things would soon change. Been with Ecotricity for a decade, great company with sound ethics..

boycott isnt really going to work until there is substantial alternative energy to switch to, and much of the green energy is just offsetting not really renewable.

 

[CheeseRolls]

We want to change our 10 year old petrol car for something more environentally friendly. I do realise the most environmentally friendly thing would be not to own a car at all and where I live in London I do mainly cycle. I share the car with my wife and to see our families family in rural Sussex and Essex it's so much easier to drive. We only do about 5,000 miles per year.

I am not sure electric is the answer - what about the environmental impact and rare materials mined for electric batteries? Where does the electricity get generated? Is it renewable? However the carbon emissions from fossil fuel powered vehicles probably make them worse. It's confusing; I don't know much about cars apart from how to drive one!

Anyone know anything or where to start finding information? My biggest concerns are low impact on the environment and reliability. Cheers for any wisdom out there.

You have had some really good answers to the question - I am not sure there is a right answer. This is how I would approach the problem, in your circumstances.

Firstly as many have pointed out, not having a car is the greenest option, but you need to put a score against how highly you value having a car.

For example living in London, how easy is it to park close to your house? - If you have to drive around for 20 minutes and eventually abandon the car up to three streets away, convenience may not score that highly. Do you need to pay for a parking permit? Also consider the likelihood of scratches, marks and dents. Conversely if you can park off road the convenience factor may score high.

Secondly Public transport can be really expensive, as can taxis - Factor in off peak travel costs on the train with kids and a taxi at the other end, versus car share versus rental. You can probably get multiple trips to see relatives, just for the cost of your insurance. The point is individual trips MAY appear expensive, but the base cost of car ownership is also not cheap.

Break down that 5k mileage per annum and work through a few scenarios. What if you got your shopping delivered, how much mileage would that save and what would be the cost? How does £6 a week delivery times 50 weeks compare to the service cost of a car?

Thirdly - be realistic about the cost of depreciation on any vehicle you own. As some have pointed out a wise second hand low mileage model, may score highly here. What do you think the cost will be to eke out a couple more years driving on your current vehicle. Even the greenest vehicle has a carbon cost of manufacture. It's another one of those counter-intuitive arguments. An old relatively high polluter, sitting on the driveway, is not much of a virtue signaller, but the carbon sunk in putting together is long spent, as is the depreciation.

Finally consider the cost of finance - Even if you have money sitting in the bank, what else could you do with it? I think there will be a major swing away from personal ownership of cars in the next decade. This could have a massive impact on sell on prices.

You have so many choices, from buy, lease, share, public transport plus taxis. How green is the car you own, isn't the only factor and often it shouldn't really be the deciding factor.

You have so many options other

 

[zefarelly]

I like that idea, cheap insurance on a classic and a car that will only go up in value. Problem is do you want your Jensen out in the rain and snow?

Fortunately we have a selection of warm dry garages . . . so rain doesn't bother me. I won't take the Cortina out if there's salt on the roads however. It's 56 years old in its original coat of paint and rust free . . . . it's going to stay that way.

 

[zefarelly]

I bought my subaru nearly 4 years old with 89000 on the clock for £4k, its maybe worth £500 now, but still works perfectly, 11 years later with 163000 on the clock.

I've spent about £2000 on it in servicing and part ( clutch tyres x 8, brakes and a clutch ) and its £400 a year in tax/insurance.

so about 7.5p a mile, or £900 a year over 11 years. for a modern large, relatively high performance car thats reasonable . . . . .although it likes a drink, av 32 mpg.

My Cortina has a well developed tuned engine which makes it a hoot to drive, but still does nearly 30 MPG . . . its not a heavy car., £90 insureance, MOT and tax exempt!

 

[CHAPPERS]

You have had some really good answers to the question - I am not sure there is a right answer. This is how I would approach the problem, in your circumstances.

Firstly as many have pointed out, not having a car is the greenest option, but you need to put a score against how highly you value having a car.

For example living in London, how easy is it to park close to your house? - If you have to drive around for 20 minutes and eventually abandon the car up to three streets away, convenience may not score that highly. Do you need to pay for a parking permit? Also consider the likelihood of scratches, marks and dents. Conversely if you can park off road the convenience factor may score high.

Secondly Public transport can be really expensive, as can taxis - Factor in off peak travel costs on the train with kids and a taxi at the other end, versus car share versus rental. You can probably get multiple trips to see relatives, just for the cost of your insurance. The point is individual trips MAY appear expensive, but the base cost of car ownership is also not cheap.

Break down that 5k mileage per annum and work through a few scenarios. What if you got your shopping delivered, how much mileage would that save and what would be the cost? How does £6 a week delivery times 50 weeks compare to the service cost of a car?

Thirdly - be realistic about the cost of depreciation on any vehicle you own. As some have pointed out a wise second hand low mileage model, may score highly here. What do you think the cost will be to eke out a couple more years driving on your current vehicle. Even the greenest vehicle has a carbon cost of manufacture. It's another one of those counter-intuitive arguments. An old relatively high polluter, sitting on the driveway, is not much of a virtue signaller, but the carbon sunk in putting together is long spent, as is the depreciation.

Finally consider the cost of finance - Even if you have money sitting in the bank, what else could you do with it? I think there will be a major swing away from personal ownership of cars in the next decade. This could have a massive impact on sell on prices.

You have so many choices, from buy, lease, share, public transport plus taxis. How green is the car you own, isn't the only factor and often it shouldn't really be the deciding factor.

You have so many options other

This is a ****ing good post, let's be honest.

 

[nicko31]

boycott isnt really going to work until there is substantial alternative energy to switch to, and much of the green energy is just offsetting not really renewable.

The more people who turn their backs on dirty power the more investment we will have in renewables.

If that happened we wouldn't have governments doing things like flogging off our green investment bank to the highest bidder and cancelling major projects like the Swansea tidal scheme.

I've been with my green provider I've been with for a decade now, they match the big 4 on price. Green elec and more recently green gas...

 

[southstandandy]

A Lotus Evija ?