[Finance] What is 'rich' in 2023?

[Weststander]

50k is around £3100 a month net take home. Circumstance dependant of course, let’s say a family. Cheapest 3 bed house for rent on Rightmove right now in Brighton/hove is £1800 per month. Take bills etc into account and there’s not a lot left for a 1 income household. However with a partner even on 20k a year I think it makes for a fairly comfortable lifestyle.

A take home of £3,170.

It depends on personal circumstances.

A third of UK homes are owned outright. Millions still working paid off their mortgages earlier by not forever moving up the ladder or remortgaging for holidays/extensions. A 50 or 55 year old taking home £3,170 with no mortgage/rent is sitting pretty.

But as you demonstrate private renting is hellish.

 

[NooBHA]

If you are not cutting back on Energy use because you are finding them unaffordable.

Then I'd say you are rich. It may not be wealthy but so many people struggle now. Consequently I think if you don't struggle. To me that's a rich like or lifestyle.

 

[NooBHA]

If you are not cutting back on Energy use because you are finding them unaffordable.

Then I'd say you are rich. It may not be wealthy but so many people struggle now. Consequently I think if you don't struggle. To me that's a rich life or lifestyle.

 

[Flagship]

It seems the only way to make money, is to have money.
This I've learned since having enough money to live comfortably

That is not the only way to make money. Lots of men and women start with absolutely nothing and, like me, work very hard for other people. Then they have the foresight to see that it would be better working for oneself. In time you realise that you can make more money by employing other people. It takes guts but those who are willing to take a risk in life will reap the rewards with a dedication and tenacity.

 

[Coldeanseagull]

That is not the only way to make money. Lots of men and women start with absolutely nothing and, like me, work very hard for other people. Then they have the foresight to see that it would be better working for oneself. In time you realise that you can make more money by employing other people. It takes guts but those who are willing to take a risk in life will reap the rewards with a dedication and tenacity.

I totally agree. I worked two to three jobs at a time, the wife the same, so we could have the lifestyle we have. however, with a few bob in the kitty and interest rates as they are, I find it easier nowadays to watch the monthly interest payments!

 

[wellquickwoody]

It seems that education is wasted on the young. Far too many people are unable to differentiate between comfortable and rich. Perhaps they need to look up the meaning of another difficult word, jealousy

 

[WATFORD zero]

It seems that education is wasted on the young. Far too many people are unable to differentiate between comfortable and rich. Perhaps they need to look up the meaning of another difficult word, jelousy.

It's always a pleasure when idiots on the other side of the world wake up and give us the benefits of their 'education'

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Fair enough, I don't know it.

But seriously, you are definitely not working class.

Fair enough, I don't know it.

But seriously, you are definitely not working class.

We will have to agree to disagree. My values, beliefs and traditions are working class. Having a manbag and enjoying a nice meal does not change this. As Nicky Wire said, being working class is not about eating sausage and chips every day.

 

[Triggaaar]

We will have to agree to disagree.

Jacob Rees-Mogg could claim to be working class too if he likes, but that's not how it works.

My values, beliefs and traditions are working class. Having a manbag and enjoying a nice meal does not change this. As Nicky Wire said, being working class is not about eating sausage and chips every day.

You do a little more than enjoy a nice meal. You seem to travel by air fairly often and post about a fairly well-to-do lifestyle. I don't imagine you're an unskilled manual labourer. You seem to have confused being working-class with being left-wing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Jacob Rees-Mogg could claim to be working class too if he likes, but that's not how it works.

You're not understanding the point. It will take quite a stretch of most people's imagination to believe that JRM has working class beliefs, values and traditions.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Jacob Rees-Mogg could claim to be working class too if he likes, but that's not how it works.

JRM doesn't have to work to live, and most believe he doesn't. He therefor can't be working class, he is ruling class, whatever he may claim.

You, me and HT have all had to work in order to live and are all working class

 

[Triggaaar]

You're not understanding the point. It will take quite a stretch of most people's imagination to believe that JRM has working class beliefs, values and traditions.

I put it to you sir that it is indeed you who are not understanding the point. The point being that we don't get to choose what class we are, er, classed as.

 

[Weststander]

You're not understanding the point. It will take quite a stretch of most people's imagination to believe that JRM has working class beliefs, values and traditions.

In this micro analysis of your life .

What about …. you’re a genuine working class lad made good through your own efforts, middle class, but never disowning your centre-left ethos?

Imho ‘middle class’ encompasses most folk in modern western societies.

70 or 100 years ago it was different story. With the upper middle class (a few generations of wealth) and lower middle class (clerks, professionals) numerically being minorities, all desperate to ascend the hierarchy.

 

[WATFORD zero]

In this micro analysis of your life .

What about …. you’re a genuine working class lad made good through your own efforts, middle class, but never disowning your centre-left ethos?

Imho ‘middle class’ encompasses most folk in modern western societies.

70 or 100 years ago it was different story. With the upper middle class (a few generations of wealth) and lower middle class (clerks, professionals) numerically being minorities, all desperate to ascend the hierarchy.

There's only two classes, the ruling class and the working class. All these other 'classes and sub-classes' are simply made up to keep it that way

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I put it to you sir that it is indeed you who are not understanding the point. The point being that we don't get to choose what class we are, er, classed as.

I did not say anything about who chooses....my point is more about the signifiers of class. You said yourself, you have not read The Road to Wigan Pier, it's a good read and it's from where the basis of my ideas and views on class where formed. Maybe I have not explained myself well........Orwell will not doubt be clearer.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

In this micro analysis of your life .

What about …. you’re a genuine working class lad made good through your own efforts, middle class, but never disowning your centre-left ethos?

Imho ‘middle class’ encompasses most folk in modern western societies.

70 or 100 years ago it was different story. With the upper middle class (a few generations of wealth) and lower middle class (clerks, professionals) numerically being minorities, all desperate to ascend the hierarchy.

Possibly........

 

[Machiavelli]

There's only two classes, the ruling class and the working class. All these other 'classes and sub-classes' are simply made up to keep it that way

A Florentine writing in the sixteenth century repeatedly said: there are two dispositions in every city, those that want to dominate and oppress, and those that want to avoid domination and oppression.

 

[Weststander]

A Florentine writing in the sixteenth century repeatedly said: they're are two dispositions in every city, those that want to dominate and oppress, and those that want to avoid domination and oppression.

AKA: S & M

 

[Triggaaar]

I did not say anything about who chooses....my point is more about the signifiers of class. You said yourself, you have not read The Road to Wigan Pier, it's a good read and it's from where the basis of my ideas and views on class where formed. Maybe I have not explained myself well........Orwell will not doubt be clearer.

You've explained yourself fine, I think I've understood.

So in 'Road to Wigan Pier' does George describe the working class as:
a) People who are short of money, with little control over their lives due to financial restraints
or
b) Fairly well off people who have a very good quality of life, but who do have left wing values?

I'm quite surprised if it's b). And if it is, he's wrong.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You've explained yourself fine, I think I've understood.

So in 'Road to Wigan Pier' does George describe the working class as:
a) People who are short of money, with little control over their lives due to financial restraints
or
b) Fairly well off people who have a very good quality of life, but who do have left wing values?

I'm quite surprised if it's b). And if it is, he's wrong.

Why don’t you go read the book yourself and report back? We can reconvene this discussion then.

Which reminds me, I never did read Down and Out in Paris and London.