[Albion] What is people's problem with Sherwood?

[Pickledegg]

As a Spurs fan who lives in Brighton and goes to the odd game at BHAFC, I think Sherwood would make an excellent choice as the Seagulls next manager. I will give a few reasons why but first I will address some of his shortcomings that have been highlighted both on this forum and on Spurs forums.

Pre / Post match interviews - At best you can view him as a salt of the earth cockney lad but the reality is he has at times been too cocky, gobbed off about individual players (which a manager should never do) and likes to stir the pot. But bear in mind he has been put in the awkward position of THFC and Levy saying that he won't be manager by the end of the season weeks before the campaign finished so much is naive rhetoric is both targeted at the position the club put him in and the frustration of a few Spurs players who were not pulling their weight.

Tactical set up of teams - Sherwood certainly made mistakes in several of our matches (Liverpool, Man City) where he didn't employ a holding midfielder, Hull where, despite us making and average display he failed to make any substitutions, West Ham playing a 4-4-2 again with no holding player.To balance that out,that although he screwed up the tactics V Hull ( 0 - 0) and West Ham, Spurs are a mile behind the Bin Dippers in Shitty (along with the top 4 PL finishers, and a weaker first 11 then Everton who totally deserved to finish above Spurs) so his poor tactical naivety in setting up his teams in reality only cost Spurs 3 - 5 points last year.

I think however it is worth highlighting that on many occasions this season, when Spurs under Sherwood have had an average or poor first half, come the second half the team have completely changed and gone on to win many matches, a good sign of a good dressing room manager


Why didn't Spurs keep hold of him? - He was always on a hiding to nothing and Levy clearly saw him as a stop gap until the end of the season where he could have a pop in recruiting a Frank De Boar, Louis Van Gaal (chance missed ) or the Poccehtino bloke from Southampton. Sherwood would have had to finish top 4 to have any chance of keeping the Spurs job, which was near impossible by the time he became THFC Head Coach. Most Spurs fans would probably say he did a reasonable job (apart from the delusional ****'s and yes we have a few) who kinda think that selling a world class player and buying 7 players with no Prem League experience means you gonna land at last top 4, even challenge for the title. Realistically, 5th - 7th is where Spurs were going to finish.

Reasons why I think he would be great at Brighton and Hove Albion FC, the 2nd greatest team in the world and based in the greatest place in the World.

Youth - At Spurs alongside Chris Ramsey, Sherwood has developed one of the strongest youth set up's in this country (behind Southampton, Everton and arguably Man Utd) Spurs put a lot of weight in bringing youth players through and have potential to have a load come up through tier ranks. Barkley and Stones at Everton, Shaw at Southampton and Wilson at Man Utd are better players then our youth set up but the likes of Rose, Townsend, Harry Kane, Livermore, Bentaleb, Carroll, Pritchard (selected in top 3 under 21 players in the Championship despite playing a tier below playing for Swindon on loan compared to the blonde head kid at Derby who won it and the Leicester CB), Fredericks, Veljokic, Ceballos, Harry Winks, Coulthirst to name a few. All these players are highly thought of and will either have or will break in or will get playing time at other PL league or top Championship teams. Please note, I DID NOT INCLUDE OBIKA IN THAT LIST!!

Most of these players were either loaned out or broke through to the Spurs first team squad in season 2013-14, but to put it in perspective how good they are, here is the league table finish from season 2012-13 of the Prem League U21s

http://www.myfootballfacts.com/U-21_Premier_League_2012-13.html

Compare the points Spurs gained and the goals scored to eventual winners (due to stupid play off/final format) to Man Utd. They also beat Barcelona U21s 4-0, in Barcelona.

Now, I am not saying "Look at Timmy, he must be a good manager because he's proved it at under 21 football", but bear in mind that like what Spurs have done, Brighton are investing heavily in a more then decent training complex and with the FFP rules and Brighton's annual losses, the future of BHAFC must be with the youth set up. So players like that Solly kid from Lewes (he looks quality) are the way forward. Sherwood would be itching to work and develop him.

Since I mentioned the FFP rules, this brings me on to the next reason why Sherwood would be a good fit for the Seagulls. As he already has good links with one of the best football academies in England, the opportunity to gain players on loan from Spurs or pick up the odd bargain in the transfer market is a real plus point. If you could get the likes of Carroll, Pritchard, Fredericks, Fryers etc on loan, you have the core of a championship winning team at zero transfer costs. The loan market is essential for teams struggling against FFP rules and to highlight this, do you think Everton would have finished 5th without loaning in Barry, Lukaku and Deulofeu? Don't take my word for it, ask an Evertonian.

I as a Spurs fan think that Sherwood was too inexperienced to cut it at Tottenham and was placed in a near impossible position, but given the chance to prove himself at a decent team with realistic expectations, he will strive to make a very good manager.

Add Chris Ramsey to the equation, a guy that many Spurs fans who have and inside knowledge of the club rate highly as a very clever, tactical coach along with the relationship Sherwood probably has established with Paul Barber and you got yourselves a real tangible and realistic opportunity and growth potential to establish Brighton as a solid, mid table Prem club in the mould of Swansea or Southampton.

This!!

 

[Screaming J]

Interesting comments from TtY but I still worry that Sherwood won't be able to work under the financial constraints a club in the Championship with no parachute payments experiences. It'll be very different from Spurs, even if they don't splash it around like City and Chelsea. I don't want a 3rd manager legging it after one season coz he's frustrated.

 

[Justice]

Given the tough working conditions at the Albion (expectations v FFP) we need someone level-headed and experienced.

Sherwood is not that man. He has no class. Hasn't got a clue how to deal with the media - or, I suspect, players.

"Someone's telling porkies!!!!"

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...od-frank-de-boer-speculation-is-disappointing

Also, the gillet. Bellend.

We had someone level headed and he just resigned.

 

[Wozza]

We had someone level headed and he just resigned.

So that rules out level-headed managers in future?!

 

[Wozza]

But bear in mind he has been put in the awkward position of THFC...

He'd be in a (different) awkward position at the Albion. Dealing with major issues (eg an ultra-tight budget) behind the scenes requires tact. It's what he's worst at.

but given the chance to prove himself at a decent team with realistic expectations, he will strive to make a very good manager.

Ha. There are no realistic expectations around here!!

 

[um bongo molongo]

As a Spurs fan who lives in Brighton and goes to the odd game at BHAFC, I think Sherwood would make an excellent choice as the Seagulls next manager. I will give a few reasons why but first I will address some of his shortcomings that have been highlighted both on this forum and on Spurs forums.

Pre / Post match interviews - At best you can view him as a salt of the earth cockney lad but the reality is he has at times been too cocky, gobbed off about individual players (which a manager should never do) and likes to stir the pot. But bear in mind he has been put in the awkward position of THFC and Levy saying that he won't be manager by the end of the season weeks before the campaign finished so much is naive rhetoric is both targeted at the position the club put him in and the frustration of a few Spurs players who were not pulling their weight.

Tactical set up of teams - Sherwood certainly made mistakes in several of our matches (Liverpool, Man City) where he didn't employ a holding midfielder, Hull where, despite us making and average display he failed to make any substitutions, West Ham playing a 4-4-2 again with no holding player.To balance that out,that although he screwed up the tactics V Hull ( 0 - 0) and West Ham, Spurs are a mile behind the Bin Dippers in Shitty (along with the top 4 PL finishers, and a weaker first 11 then Everton who totally deserved to finish above Spurs) so his poor tactical naivety in setting up his teams in reality only cost Spurs 3 - 5 points last year.

I think however it is worth highlighting that on many occasions this season, when Spurs under Sherwood have had an average or poor first half, come the second half the team have completely changed and gone on to win many matches, a good sign of a good dressing room manager


Why didn't Spurs keep hold of him? - He was always on a hiding to nothing and Levy clearly saw him as a stop gap until the end of the season where he could have a pop in recruiting a Frank De Boar, Louis Van Gaal (chance missed ) or the Poccehtino bloke from Southampton. Sherwood would have had to finish top 4 to have any chance of keeping the Spurs job, which was near impossible by the time he became THFC Head Coach. Most Spurs fans would probably say he did a reasonable job (apart from the delusional ****'s and yes we have a few) who kinda think that selling a world class player and buying 7 players with no Prem League experience means you gonna land at last top 4, even challenge for the title. Realistically, 5th - 7th is where Spurs were going to finish.

Reasons why I think he would be great at Brighton and Hove Albion FC, the 2nd greatest team in the world and based in the greatest place in the World.

Youth - At Spurs alongside Chris Ramsey, Sherwood has developed one of the strongest youth set up's in this country (behind Southampton, Everton and arguably Man Utd) Spurs put a lot of weight in bringing youth players through and have potential to have a load come up through tier ranks. Barkley and Stones at Everton, Shaw at Southampton and Wilson at Man Utd are better players then our youth set up but the likes of Rose, Townsend, Harry Kane, Livermore, Bentaleb, Carroll, Pritchard (selected in top 3 under 21 players in the Championship despite playing a tier below playing for Swindon on loan compared to the blonde head kid at Derby who won it and the Leicester CB), Fredericks, Veljokic, Ceballos, Harry Winks, Coulthirst to name a few. All these players are highly thought of and will either have or will break in or will get playing time at other PL league or top Championship teams. Please note, I DID NOT INCLUDE OBIKA IN THAT LIST!!

Most of these players were either loaned out or broke through to the Spurs first team squad in season 2013-14, but to put it in perspective how good they are, here is the league table finish from season 2012-13 of the Prem League U21s

http://www.myfootballfacts.com/U-21_Premier_League_2012-13.html

Compare the points Spurs gained and the goals scored to eventual winners (due to stupid play off/final format) to Man Utd. They also beat Barcelona U21s 4-0, in Barcelona.

Now, I am not saying "Look at Timmy, he must be a good manager because he's proved it at under 21 football", but bear in mind that like what Spurs have done, Brighton are investing heavily in a more then decent training complex and with the FFP rules and Brighton's annual losses, the future of BHAFC must be with the youth set up. So players like that Solly kid from Lewes (he looks quality) are the way forward. Sherwood would be itching to work and develop him.

Since I mentioned the FFP rules, this brings me on to the next reason why Sherwood would be a good fit for the Seagulls. As he already has good links with one of the best football academies in England, the opportunity to gain players on loan from Spurs or pick up the odd bargain in the transfer market is a real plus point. If you could get the likes of Carroll, Pritchard, Fredericks, Fryers etc on loan, you have the core of a championship winning team at zero transfer costs. The loan market is essential for teams struggling against FFP rules and to highlight this, do you think Everton would have finished 5th without loaning in Barry, Lukaku and Deulofeu? Don't take my word for it, ask an Evertonian.

I as a Spurs fan think that Sherwood was too inexperienced to cut it at Tottenham and was placed in a near impossible position, but given the chance to prove himself at a decent team with realistic expectations, he will strive to make a very good manager.

Add Chris Ramsey to the equation, a guy that many Spurs fans who have and inside knowledge of the club rate highly as a very clever, tactical coach along with the relationship Sherwood probably has established with Paul Barber and you got yourselves a real tangible and realistic opportunity and growth potential to establish Brighton as a solid, mid table Prem club in the mould of Swansea or Southampton.

Thanks for that - a clear, reasoned and (looks like) well informed argument. You won't last long on here.

I have to say I wasn't fully aware of what he's been doing as a coach until he became spurs manager other than he was working with youth. It seems to me fairly obvious what Tony Bloom's plan is - build the infrastructure, build the academy so you can attract the best young players (using the advantage of a relatively big catchment area with no competition) and "grow your own" a la Southampton. If we get promoted in the meantime and get the cash that goes with it that will accelerate things. Doesn't fit with most people's ideas of what you need to do in football these days but I think success will feel a lot better if it's done this way than finding a rich sheikh to bankroll us.

For all of those reasons I'd expected us to go for Hoddle, who's spent the last few years working with young English players in Spain and must be well tuned to that way of thinking. But if Sherwood is also up for that sort of challenge then even better.

 

[TtY]

He'd be in a (different) awkward position at the Albion. Dealing with major issues (eg an ultra-tight budget) behind the scenes requires tact. It's what he's worst at.



Ha. There are no realistic expectations around here!!

The Brighton fans I have spoken to didn't expect to reach the play off's and most felt that they lost to Derby because they were the better team. Sherwood had the money and opportunity to buy players in the January but chose not to and instead pushed youth players through at Spurs. You think Brighton fans have expectations? Many Spurs fans (wrongly) expected to finish top 4, challenge for the title and player the beautiful game, I think he can handle expectations at BHAFC...

 

[GreersElbow]

My problem is that his squad is worth hundreds of millions, therefore, the results should be coming with that type of squad. I don't have anything against him, I want someone who truly understands the championship. It's time to stop taking a gamble, and get someone with a clear cut strategy and experience to drag us out of the championship without spending much money.

 

[London Irish]

Not worried about the bellend issue, will enjoy his odd outburst. The inexperience is the main worry which is why guys like Mackay are ahead for me

 

[TtY]

Thanks for that - a clear, reasoned and (looks like) well informed argument. You won't last long on here.

I have to say I wasn't fully aware of what he's been doing as a coach until he became spurs manager other than he was working with youth. It seems to me fairly obvious what Tony Bloom's plan is - build the infrastructure, build the academy so you can attract the best young players (using the advantage of a relatively big catchment area with no competition) and "grow your own" a la Southampton. If we get promoted in the meantime and get the cash that goes with it that will accelerate things. Doesn't fit with most people's ideas of what you need to do in football these days but I think success will feel a lot better if it's done this way than finding a rich sheikh to bankroll us.

For all of those reasons I'd expected us to go for Hoddle, who's spent the last few years working with young English players in Spain and must be well tuned to that way of thinking. But if Sherwood is also up for that sort of challenge then even better.

You hit the nail on the head with the words "catchment area" potential for this club is huge given the fact that there is no half decent team in a 40 mile radius. Regarding Hoddle, my favourite player but don't bank on him as a manager. Go to the THTV forum (quite reasonable most of the time) and ask there collective views on Sherwood V Hoddle. They will love Hoddle as a player, idolise him, but as a manager, not so good.

 

[beorhthelm]

i think Spurs fans in the media gave him a shoeing after the heavy defeats, and that impression stuck. TfY presents a more indepth assessment though, but what i would note is that he did learn from those tactical mistakes, didn't he? struck me a bit of trying too hard, rather than keeping it simple, he didnt want to be seen as English "4-4-bloody-2" manager so flirted around tactics before settling down.

 

[TtY]

Not worried about the bellend issue, will enjoy his odd outburst. The inexperience is the main worry which is why guys like Mackay are ahead for me

Mackay on the face of things would be a solid fit, but correct me if I am wrong, didn't he have mucho ££££ to spend in relative terms to get Cardiff up?

 

[Wozza]

The Brighton fans I have spoken to didn't expect to reach the play off's and most felt that they lost to Derby because they were the better team. Sherwood had the money and opportunity to buy players in the January but chose not to and instead pushed youth players through at Spurs. You think Brighton fans have expectations? Many Spurs fans (wrongly) expected to finish top 4, challenge for the title and player the beautiful game, I think he can handle expectations at BHAFC...

We've lost two managers in two seasons because they didn't feel the budget available matched the expectations and ambitions of the board and fans.

 

[GT49er]

As a Spurs fan who lives in Brighton and goes to the odd game at BHAFC, I think Sherwood would make an excellent choice as the Seagulls next manager. I will give a few reasons I as a Spurs fan think that Sherwood was too inexperienced to cut it at Tottenham and was placed in a near impossible position, but given the chance to prove himself at a decent team with realistic expectations, he will strive to make a very good manager..............................................Add Chris Ramsey to the equation, a guy that many Spurs fans who have and inside knowledge of the club rate highly as a very clever, tactical coach along with the relationship Sherwood probably has established with Paul Barber and you got yourselves a real tangible and realistic opportunity and growth potential to establish Brighton as a solid, mid table Prem club in the mould of Swansea or Southampton.

Won't quote the whole of it yet again, but thanks for a very thoughtful, informative and readable post. Can't fault any of your arguments, and he seems like a good bloke, but I still have this gut feeling that he's not the one for us (even if he'd drop down a level to come here anyway) - can't justify that, or put up logical arguments - it's just the way I feel. Mind you, for some reason that I've long forgotten, I wasn't too impressed when Mullery first fetched up at the Goldstone either.....................

 

[TtY]

i think Spurs fans in the media gave him a shoeing after the heavy defeats, and that impression stuck. TfY presents a more indepth assessment though, but what i would note is that he did learn from those tactical mistakes, didn't he? struck me a bit of trying too hard, rather than keeping it simple, he didnt want to be seen as English "4-4-bloody-2" manager so flirted around tactics before settling down.

He played a lot of 4-4-2 especially the last few games. I won't deny he is a manager in development, but he is learning.

You also need to distance the stupid comments form Spurs fans who slag him off. Since we got into the Champions League that one time and had Bale, we have unfortunately gained that element of fans that jumped on the bandwagon and expect us to achieve top 4 every season. Hopefully they will see the shiny new stadia West Ham nicked off the tax payer and f*** off and support them instead. Most Spurs fans who watch them week in week out for years will see Sherwood as someone who brought back entertaining football after the AVB era (it was very very boring times) and did a sound job but was not ready to do it full time without going out and cutting his teeth elsewhere.

 

[GT49er]

Mackay on the face of things would be a solid fit, but correct me if I am wrong, didn't he have mucho ££££ to spend in relative terms to get Cardiff up?

Well, that's certainly how it was according to V. Tan.............

 

[GT49er]

Since we got into the Champions League that one time and had Bale, we have unfortunately gained that element of fans that jumped on the bandwagon and expect us to achieve top 4 every season. Hopefully they will see the shiny new stadia West Ham nicked off the tax payer and f*** off and support them instead.

Brilliant!

 

[TtY]

We've lost two managers in two seasons because they didn't feel the budget available matched the expectations and ambitions of the board and fans.

Ok, I don't know as much about Brighton's budget as you do, my understanding is that the club has a debt of £5m - £8m season on season. Obviously this is going to limit you guys on transfer funds but how does that stack up in terms of budget on players wages against other championship teams?

Also, I know parachute payments are a major disadvantage, but I don't believe Burnley, Leicester or Derby had the parachute payments this season (I may be wrong so if so I stand corrected) or Cardiff last year.

Unlike the Premiership, the Championship is more then just about revenue, if that were the case then QPR would have strolled this season, but investment in 'quality' players with PL experience didn't really do them that much good, did it? A good forward thinking Championship team will pick up bargains and astute buys and look to promote a good core youth set up. Timmy boy knows how to work with youth players and wil get you a few decent bargains on the loan market.

 

[Gwylan]

Also, I know parachute payments are a major disadvantage, but I don't believe Burnley, Leicester or Derby had the parachute payments this season (I may be wrong so if so I stand corrected)

Burnley did. The other two didn't but Leicester's owner pumped a lot, a LOT, of money into the club.

Thanks for your posts on Sherwood, they made interesting reading. I'm certainly not violently opposed to him coming here but I do wonder whether his expectations would match ours - I see him going to a PL team.

But what about Ramsey coming here? Highly regarded coach and ex-Brighton to boot. And I know that he'd love to be a manager but feels he hasn't been given the chance

 

[TtY]

Burnley did. The other two didn't but Leicester's owner pumped a lot, a LOT, of money into the club.

Thanks for your posts on Sherwood, they made interesting reading. I'm certainly not violently opposed to him coming here but I do wonder whether his expectations would match ours - I see him going to a PL team.

But what about Ramsey coming here? Highly regarded coach and ex-Brighton to boot. And I know that he'd love to be a manager but feels he hasn't been given the chance

Amongst Spurs fans who know more about the inside running of the club, Ramsey is hugely respected. Tactically very aware and probably the biggest influence on our academy. I kind of suspect however that he may not have the presence to be a big influence as a manager. It would be pointless bringing in Sherwood without Ramsey and visa versa. But whatever manager you bring in, if you nick Ramsey and get a good working relationship with him and the incoming manager, it would be a Seagulls gain and a Yid...erm not sure if I should say the Y word here....Spurs loss. A bit like a low key modern Clough/Taylor thing........ well a modern day Clough/Taylor thing at all the other clubs they managed other then Brighton...in retrospect, a bad example!!!