What is it with the English??

[Uncle Buck]

This is moving towards "bring back National Service" and it's now coming from the mouths of youngsters

and UKIP has only been in Europe for 4 days.....

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Incidentally, why is it always the PM who condemns these morons? As head of state, I'd like to see the queen actually come out and say the same - and make it clear to these numpties that they're not behaving like that in her name.

Unfortunately, since Charles 1, monarchs are advised to keep stum, in case they get their heads chopped off !

Would make an interesting Queen's speech on Christmas day tho'.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Unfortunately, since Charles 1, monarchs are advised to keep stum, in case they get their heads chopped off !

Would make an interesting Queen's speech on Christmas day tho'.

Is it not because she is a German

 

[CHAPPERS]

This is moving towards "bring back National Service" and it's now coming from the mouths of youngsters

I know and it worries me but when you see pictures of pissed up English WANKERS attacking a bar for no reason it kinda makes you think. I have thought about National Service many times and kinda see why it can be a good thing, I don't agree with it but that's not the point.

 

[saltash seagull]

If the person in question is a repeat offender, then yes they should get a life ban, but for instance the lad from Burgess Hill, if this is first offence, surely a medium term one is the way forward as society preaches rehabiltation?

but where do the ob braw the line say cos he and his mates plead his innocence and cos of this and it's a 1st offence they are lenient with him and then when his medium ban finishes he goes away and gets caught up in trouble again then they get slatted!! no win situation really they take the same heavy handed treatment with them all they get slated and if they are more lenient with someone in andrew's position then they will be to blame if he offends again

 

[Uncle Buck]

but where do the ob braw the line say cos he and his mates plead his innocence and cos of this and it's a 1st offence they are lenient with him and then when his medium ban finishes he goes away and gets caught up in trouble again then they get slatted!! no win situation really they take the same heavy handed treatment with them all they get slated and if they are more lenient with someone in andrew's position then they will be to blame if he offends again

I guess that if he repeat offends then you throw the book at him.

 

[Wilko]

There was an excellent piece of writing by Raj Persaud in yesterday's Independent about why English fans above all others turn to hooliganism. He suggested that it all seems to stem from the negative image/tag that has been labelled on the Brits when in all honesty ALL nations have their trouble makes.

He stated that SOME brits end up living up to their label as a type of self fulfilling prophecy and togetherness:

'Psychologists believe that many caught up in the riots have no previous history of violence, and instead are galvanised into action by a sense of solidarity which emerges suddenly and powerfully, as a direct result of the way authorities confront the crowd'

any truth in this do you reckon ??

 

[Seagullsgonnagetya]

"A man described by Portuguese police as a ringleader of the English football hooligans involved in rioting on the Algarve works as a fireman in Kent.

Garry Mann was facing deportation and a two-year jail sentence after a fast-track court hearing yesterday."

Apparently they tried and convicted him in 48 hours, will now deport him immediately and the sentance will be carried out in a British jail.

Maybe this will help to deter these tossers wrecking Euro 2004 for the fans in Portugal

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Back to ' what is the problem with the English '.

I think it boils down to not having lost a war, or having been invaded, for may hundreds of years. We have an over-inflated opinion of our own self-importance.

Take the Welsh, Irish or Scots, they've been subjugated by us for centuries, and by and large, have learned to come to terms with their lot, making them, generally speaking, better behaved and more welcoming to foriegners.

 

[Wilko]

Back to ' what is the problem with the English '.

I think it boils down to not having lost a war, or having been invaded, for may hundreds of years. We have an over-inflated opinion of our own self-importance.

Take the Welsh, Irish or Scots, they've been subjugated by us for centuries, and by and large, have learned to come to terms with their lot, making them, generally speaking, better behaved and more welcoming to foriegners.

But when Irish and scots fans travel abroad they are treated with respect by authorities. When English fans travel abroad they are looked upon as trouble makers and scum. This is going to provoke different reactions.

 

[Uncle Buck]

But when Irish and scots fans travel abroad they are treated with respect by authorities. When English fans travel abroad they are looked upon as trouble makers and scum. This is going to provoke different reactions.

The Irish and Scots I would agree with you, but the Welsh have their moment, although rarely. I seem to remember reading that they were involved in some incidents in Poland a few years ago.

 

[Marc]

just thought of a good way to curb violence, threaten them with a 3 year contratc in the Army....well if they wanna fight then train 'em up properly and at least in that time they will learn how to behave and use their brain properly....it'll keep 'em away from football too!

 

[Jambo Seagull]

But when Irish and scots fans travel abroad they are treated with respect by authorities. When English fans travel abroad they are looked upon as trouble makers and scum. This is going to provoke different reactions.

It's chicken and egg, though. When Scotland travel abroad the Tartan Army actually tries and polices itself. The Scots had a bad reputation in the late 70s due to the pitch invasion at Wembley 77 (just high spirits imho ) but have managed to completely rebrand themselves. The English are in the process of doing that but they have had so many rucks (not just England but English teams abroad eg Heysel) that it is really not very surprising that they are treated with zero tolerance abroad. I actually think the England fans have come along way but they have long way to go to eradicate the memories of past "indiscretions".

 

[Uncle Buck]

It's chicken and egg, though. When Scotland travel abroad the Tartan Army actually tries and polices itself. The Scots had a bad reputation in the late 70s due to the pitch invasion at Wembley 77 (just high spirits imho ) but have managed to completely rebrand themselves. The English are in the process of doing that but they have had so many rucks (not just England but English teams abroad eg Heysel) that it is really not very surprising that they are treated with zero tolerance abroad. I actually think the England fans have come along way but they have long way to go to eradicate the memories of past "indiscretions".

I think you are right. As much as I dislike the Englandfans scheme (does not recognise past loyalty), there seemed to be a new generation of fan out in Lisbon. More couples and families, more people in colours and less Burberry monsters. There were still a proportion of unlovely's there, but less than say Brussels 4 years ago.

 

[Brixtaan]

Wilko's speaking sense.

Maybe it's something in the air or the fact 60 million people are crammed into a tiny island, we're certainly hellbent on trouble.

First to jump into the war,
Big Brother contestants fighting last night (wouldn't happen in other BB's worldwide),
Hooligans doing their stuff all week,
we're like a scene out of 28 Days Later.WE HAVE RAGE.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Wilko's speaking sense.

Maybe it's something in the air or the fact 60 million people are crammed into a tiny island, we're certainly hellbent on trouble.

First to jump into the war,
Big Brother contestants fighting last night (wouldn't happen in other BB's worldwide),
Hooligans doing their stuff all week,
we're like a scene out of 28 Days Later.WE HAVE RAGE.

RRRRRAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH

 

[bigc]

This is moving towards "bring back National Service" and it's now coming from the mouths of youngsters

christ i'd never say that!lol.
just a shame about the little portugese towns being smashed up, it upset my friend quite a bit.

 

[knuckles]

There was an excellent piece of writing by Raj Persaud in yesterday's Independent about why English fans above all others turn to hooliganism. He suggested that it all seems to stem from the negative image/tag that has been labelled on the Brits when in all honesty ALL nations have their trouble makes.

He stated that SOME brits end up living up to their label as a type of self fulfilling prophecy and togetherness:

'Psychologists believe that many caught up in the riots have no previous history of violence, and instead are galvanised into action by a sense of solidarity which emerges suddenly and powerfully, as a direct result of the way authorities confront the crowd'

any truth in this do you reckon ??

I find this more like it. Most of the deportees have had no record of football violence before. This makes the job of stamping out English football violence very difficult and complex.

I do get tired of hearing dozens of English fans whine about the heavy handed approach from the police and even citing this to be the cause of the trouble.

I do believe that there's something inherently wrong with the mentality of a significant proportion of English so called supporters.

Where I don't think many of the knee jerk reactions on here are helpful......it is interesting that there were no problems in the Japan/Korea World cup. You just wouldn't mess with those cops!

 

[Uncle Buck]

Where I don't think many of the knee jerk reactions on here are helpful......it is interesting that there were no problems in the Japan/Korea World cup. You just wouldn't mess with those cops!

The initial reason there were no problems in Japan was due to the fact that these 18-23 year olds that seem to get caught up in trouble (the foot soldiers if you like) could not afford to travel. Although there were still some numpties out there, on the whole it was genuine fans and we had travelled too far at a large cost, for anyone to do anything that might mean you get sent home.

Also the Japanese took us to their hearts and were so nice, that you would have felt embarrased to do anything wrong.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I know and it worries me but when you see pictures of pissed up English WANKERS attacking a bar for no reason it kinda makes you think. I have thought about National Service many times and kinda see why it can be a good thing, I don't agree with it but that's not the point.

I think this National Service argument is bollocks. Anyone who's seen pissed up squadies in Aldershot or drunken matelows in Portsmouth would be hard pressed to identify the civilising influence of life in the armed forces.