[Politics] What is education?

[Withdean11]

Most of the stupid people I know all have degrees. Most of the smart people I know, don’t.

You will learn much more outside of university than you will in it. I’d say for most people, getting a degree is a waste of time and money.

 

[Bakero]

Most of the stupid people I know all have degrees. Most of the smart people I know, don’t.

You will learn much more outside of university than you will in it. I’d say for most people, getting a degree is a waste of time and money.

To counter that, most of the intelligent people I know have a degree. However, I know plenty of very smart people that didn't go to uni. And plenty of stupid people in both camps.

The debt burden that comes with further education in England may well put people off in the future, which is a great shame imo. Having a better educated populace can only be a good thing for the individual and society as a whole.

You're right, of course, that you'll learn more outside of uni, if you mean across the course of your life. That's no argument for not going though.

 

[el punal]

We don’t need no ejucashun, we don’t need no fort controwl . . .

 

[hart's shirt]

Never let school interfere with your education.

 

[brightn'ove]

These days you'll arrested just for saying that you don't have a degree

 

[A1X]

I don’t think you are allowed to reach the age of 22 without a degree, or 24 for a Masters nowadays.

These days you'll arrested just for saying that you don't have a degree

But only if you're 25

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Or how to manage your finances. Both subjects infinitely more useful for a boy venturing out into the world as a young adult.

You should be able to work out how to manage your finances from maths lessons…..surely?

 

[Questions]

We need to bring back borstals to teach kids bricklaying and carpentry and the like. That’s proper learning.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I don't know if this is on topic but the curriculum when I was in school didn't make sense.

Why did I need to learn about the American West in high school history instead of, for instance, politics. Or how to manage your finances. Both subjects infinitely more useful for a boy venturing out into the world as a young adult.

I don't think schools educate people anymore, they just teach kids how to pass exams. I left college halfway through my AS levels at 17 or so. No degree, worked my way up and I now do the same job as my colleague who went to uni and is saddled with tens of thousands of pounds of Lib Dem treachery.

Apologies, bit of a ramble, morning coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

It has always been the case that schools and teachers try to get pupils through exams. It would be perverse if they didn't. Whether you get interesting challenging classes as part of that, however, depends on the individual teacher. When I was a kid we had some magical teachers and some dullards (for ex HGSB boys I give you Ross the latin teacher and Looby Jones the useless English teacher as examples of the extremes).

In my job today (university lecturer) some of my colleagues (this includes me, he says modestly) are brilliant lateral thinking challenging lecturerers. Others just read their slides and rush off after.

Talking to our undergraduate students, most have managed to get three As at A level by rote learning. Some do some thinking too. The latter will thrive and get a very good degree. The rote learners either find out how to think before final year, or they do less well. It is possible to blag a low 60s average by rote learning, sadly, but I'd never take someone like that on for a doctorate (you can suss them out at interview). They will make good little workers, though. Rote learners....none of them familiar with the wider world; none have heard of the latest comedy or music; a weird little lot of dullards; the stuff of the nation today, sadly. Unfortunately there's nothing much we can do about this and, in any case, society needs good little workers.

I am convinced things improve across the piece, though. Curriculum reviews largely improve content (two steps forward, one step back in some cases, admittedly - too few essays and too many MCQs these days, albeit not on the courses I run - old skool, moi). Staff training is hugely improved. When I was an undergrad in the 70s a couple of our lecturerers were so bad it was a joke. "P. S." (Mr) the physiology lecturer came unprepared for lectures and rambled for an hour, no overheads, no handouts. Almost the entire class failed the first year exam. He'd be out on his ear today for that.

Back again to the OP question, there is no single simple answer but I'd encourage everyone to grab what they can, education wise, and select what you enjoy when the time comes to choose. Student loans are definitely worth it (as discussed elsewhere). No surrender to apathy - finger out, crack on and the rewards will be yours.

 

[BN9 BHA]

We need to bring back borstals to teach kids bricklaying and carpentry and the like. That’s proper learning.

Is this where you learned your trade?

 

[BBassic]

You should be able to work out how to manage your finances from maths lessons…..surely?

Yeah I more meant teaching kids the importance of being sensible with their money rather than the calculations. Although I struggle with that side of things personally, always have. Numbers baffle me

I'm only going from my experience of getting into work at 17, earning money and not being smart enough to know that I should be saving some of it or investing it or whacking it into a pension. I blasted through my twenties more or less month-to-month which, whilst it enabled a lot of fun, wasn't the best move in hindsight.

Probably more something for the parents to be teaching than schools though.