What do you think is the 'par' league position for our squad?

[El Sid]

Squad - 8-10th
Manager - mid table league 1

 

[kevo]

Between the 3rd and 4th options - mid-table, play-offs a bit out of reach but no fears of relegation.

 

[mwrpoole]

13-16, you can't lose the likes of Ulloa, Upson, Bridcutt and Buckley and hope to progress when you replace them with the likes of O'Grady

I agree with Ernest 100%

 

[durrington gull]

Relegation possibly - looking over our shoulder

 

[Luke93]

Last season || This season || Opinion
-------------------------------------------
TK..............|| Stockdale ....|| Equal replacment IMO, especially when you consider we've now got a better backup (Walton)
Ward..........|| J.Bennett......|| worse replacment IMO
Upson.........|| Hughes........|| slightly worse replacment, but fine overall becuase Dunk has stepped up (superbly)
Andrews......|| Gardner.......|| Worse replacment IMO
Lopez..........|| Holla...........|| Better replacement, but less creative
Orlandi........|| Colunga.......|| Worse replacment, but Orlandi wasn't fit enough last year IMO (would have him back now tho)
Barnes.........|| O'Grady......|| Worse replacment, significantly. Did I he really score 15?
Ulloa...........|| Baldock.......|| not even worth comparing
Buckley.......|| E.Bennett....|| Worse replacment, and Benno is only on loan (worrying as LuaLua is injured now)
CMS + COG|| D.Bent.........|| lost two strikers out on loan to other c,ubs, replaced with a better player (but only temp)
................|| Tex + McCourt|| creative players added to squad during summer, ineffetcivly used by Sami

We've also lost March, Stephens and Crofts this season to injuries. This resulted in JFC and Gardner becoming Championship regulars, that's another downgrade IMO. Bruno and Greer have also got another year older and slower, this has showed on occasions. Our squod this year is A LOT worse. The recruitment of some players has been good, but we lacked a creative midfielder and stiker prior to Bent and Bennett arriving. Last year Brighton technically had Bridcutt, but he never had an impact so there's no point factoring him in when considering replacements.

Defensively, we looked a lot bette last season. But, I DONT think this is down to a personal change. Stockdale is as good as Koosh, and we have a better number two in Walton. He have THEEE great centre backs this year, as we did last. Ward is better than Bennett, but Bennett is more than ample as a substitute. The problem is the tactics and the defensive unit above them. Pushing the fullbacks foward whilst having players like JFC and Gardner in front of you isn't going to bode well. This isn't a dog at JFC, I just think our midfield lacks a physical presence, so you can't expect them to defend two men behind hem (which is why our fullbacks are pushing too far forward). When we have players like Tex and Colunga playing in midfeild too, we just look too weak as a defensive unit.

Our midfield recriutment during the summer was good. We lost Orlandi and Lopez as creative Sparks, and replaced them with two players (Tex and Paddy). The latter two are worse, but they are not terrible replacments. The lose of Andrews was supplemented with Holla, that's a very good swap IMO. But, our biggest downfall, has not been replacing injured players. Gardner isn't as effective as Stephens, and JFC isn't as good as Crofts. March, Bennett and LuaLua are good wingers, so no complaints witg recriutment there (Sami just can't use them properly). I do worrying about our attractive options when Bennett does, a replacment is needed in January.

Ulloa has been massive lose. We should have replaced him with a palyer who can score 15 goals a season. We tried to do that with Baldock and COG, but failed. We've now got Bent in, who looks good. He's loan is only for an initial month, when he leaves, we'll be relying a lot on Baldock and Colunga again. Both are worse than Barnes, let alone Ulloa. Misjudged replacments here, but put right (hopefully) with Bent and a possible January signing - but don't hold your breath.

We should be 10-12th IMO, but we're setting up like a team in the top six, with the execution of a team in relegation.

 

[GT49er]

Not a lot better, really, just sufficiently better to avoid being sucked into a relegation scrap and relegated - I voted 13th. to 16th. Never believed all that guff we were fed in August anyway.

 

[Mellotron]

Start of season we looked at least a top 12th team.

 

[Don Quixote]

12th and up I think. Our recruitment has been bad, but not as bad as the league table suggests.

 

[Pavilionaire]

'Arry, McLaren, McCarthy would have us comfortably in the top half and if we'd replaced Ulloa with, say, Murray I believe those 3 coaches would have us in the Top 6 easily.

I maintain that this is a very good squad with some excellent bench options, I'd love to see what a proper manager could do. Of the new players, the bulk of the rubbish was brought in early and those with ability bought in later, so there's effectively been no pre-season for this team as a collective. Compare this to how Derby have kept their squad together and how that is paying dividends now.

 

[Commander]

Last season || This season || Opinion
-------------------------------------------
TK..............|| Stockdale ....|| Equal replacment IMO, especially when you consider we've now got a better backup (Walton)
Ward..........|| J.Bennett......|| worse replacment IMO
Upson.........|| Hughes........|| slightly worse replacment, but fine overall becuase Dunk has stepped up (superbly)
Andrews......|| Gardner.......|| Worse replacment IMO
Lopez..........|| Holla...........|| Better replacement, but less creative
Orlandi........|| Colunga.......|| Worse replacment, but Orlandi wasn't fit enough last year IMO (would have him back now tho)
Barnes.........|| O'Grady......|| Worse replacment, significantly. Did I he really score 15?
Ulloa...........|| Baldock.......|| not even worth comparing
Buckley.......|| E.Bennett....|| Worse replacment, and Benno is only on loan (worrying as LuaLua is injured now)
CMS + COG|| D.Bent.........|| lost two strikers out on loan to other c,ubs, replaced with a better player (but only temp)
................|| Tex + McCourt|| creative players added to squad during summer, ineffetcivly used by Sami

We've also lost March, Stephens and Crofts this season to injuries. This resulted in JFC and Gardner becoming Championship regulars, that's another downgrade IMO. Bruno and Greer have also got another year older and slower, this has showed on occasions. Our squod this year is A LOT worse. The recruitment of some players has been good, but we lacked a creative midfielder and stiker prior to Bent and Bennett arriving. Last year Brighton technically had Bridcutt, but he never had an impact so there's no point factoring him in when considering replacements.

Defensively, we looked a lot bette last season. But, I DONT think this is down to a personal change. Stockdale is as good as Koosh, and we have a better number two in Walton. He have THEEE great centre backs this year, as we did last. Ward is better than Bennett, but Bennett is more than ample as a substitute. The problem is the tactics and the defensive unit above them. Pushing the fullbacks foward whilst having players like JFC and Gardner in front of you isn't going to bode well. This isn't a dog at JFC, I just think our midfield lacks a physical presence, so you can't expect them to defend two men behind hem (which is why our fullbacks are pushing too far forward). When we have players like Tex and Colunga playing in midfeild too, we just look too weak as a defensive unit.

Our midfield recriutment during the summer was good. We lost Orlandi and Lopez as creative Sparks, and replaced them with two players (Tex and Paddy). The latter two are worse, but they are not terrible replacments. The lose of Andrews was supplemented with Holla, that's a very good swap IMO. But, our biggest downfall, has not been replacing injured players. Gardner isn't as effective as Stephens, and JFC isn't as good as Crofts. March, Bennett and LuaLua are good wingers, so no complaints witg recriutment there (Sami just can't use them properly). I do worrying about our attractive options when Bennett does, a replacment is needed in January.

Ulloa has been massive lose. We should have replaced him with a palyer who can score 15 goals a season. We tried to do that with Baldock and COG, but failed. We've now got Bent in, who looks good. He's loan is only for an initial month, when he leaves, we'll be relying a lot on Baldock and Colunga again. Both are worse than Barnes, let alone Ulloa. Misjudged replacments here, but put right (hopefully) with Bent and a possible January signing - but don't hold your breath.

We should be 10-12th IMO, but we're setting up like a team in the top six, with the execution of a team in relegation.

Pretty much spot on.

 

[JCL666]

As per the post by Luke93

Player wise it's not as good a squad as we've had in recent years, but generally it's decent. Defensively I think we're a little improved personnel wise.

It's the tactics. People may have moaned under Oscar (and Gus) that we passed it too much with no end product, but both of those managers set teams out not to concede.

Of course there are lots of arguments about playing to peoples strengths, however the possession based system we played previously limited our opponents opportunities, and most players that we brought on board (as long as they had a first touch and could pass 5 yards), were able to adapt to it.

At the moment we look like we will concede at any time during the game, and are over reliant on running very very very fast.

A good manager could make this squad into a top half team.

 

[GT49er]

Start of season we looked at least a top 12th team.

Really? I take it you weren't at Birmingham then.

 

[Stat Brother]

The thing is, had we not been on the receiving end of at least 3 worldie goals.
Committed professional suicide when in defence, or standing in the wall to BLOCK a free kick, etc.
Come up against an unflappable 'keeper.
Thought the game could be played without an effective striker.
Selected completely the wrong midfield.

We'd probably be higher up the league than the most optimist opinion on this thread.

No team (or manager) can survive that level of incompetence and poor luck, why should we expect to be different.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

At the beginning of the season I naturally hoped for the play offs but realistically felt we would do well to finish above mid-table. I predicted around 10th.

Back in August our squad was looking a bit thin, lacking in quality after the departures of Ulloa, Buckley etc, with yet another new manager in post and a commitment to comply with tighter FFP limits.

The fees received for Ulloa and Buckley should have given us a reasonable transfer budget to work with, but we would also be up against more Championship teams enjoying parachute money. We would need to find some hidden gems like Ulloa, maybe some experience from the Premier League or hope that someone might step up from the lower leagues.

Here we are 5 months later and in some difficulty. Yes we have reinforced the squad and on paper it ought to be sufficient to fight around mid table. This assumes the manager has the players firing on all cylinders and that we remain free from injury and suspensions. Confidence is important too. This largely comes from playing well and putting a run of results together. Unfortunately we are falling short in all of those areas and are now accumulating the wrong results, largely through poor team selections, flawed tactics and occasional bad luck. We have managed to avoid a real battering (despite this looking likely after 30 mins on Saturday). If only we had been a bit more clinical in a handful of games a while back. .

After achieving successive play offs maybe we need this reality check to refocus everyone's minds (Chairman / Board / coaching team / playing squad / fans). There is nothing wrong with having ambitions - but these have to be realistic. We now have a fabulous infrastructure behind the scenes which is probably the envy of many others. If anything it creates a little more pressure as there cannot be any excuses on that front. Above all recognise that we need a manager capable of inspiring an average-ish squad to play to its optimum. Look at Bournemouth / Brentford / Ipswich / Charlton. OK one or two of them might fall foul of FFP but they have got the footballing side of things going ok. IMO we should be competing with them.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

I suppose it depends on how good a manager we get in, if we get the best manager possible, in our position, we would likely to get should be edge of playoffs especially now we have Darren Bent. An average manager probably mid table but not looking down.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lense]

Can't disagree much with Luke93's summary. The only additional emphasis is on the context that so much has changed in such a short space of time. The hammering by Derby in the play-offs was never recovered from - it showed that last season we were a fair way behind the very best in the division, albeit we could have gone into that game in front but for 2 awful goals in the home leg (The penalty and the one off the cross-bar) and a good G/K performance from the Derby 'keeper. Losing the manager and the over-hauling of the team after that was an awful lot to ask, and I for one expected mid-table at best. Pre-season was poor and The confidence has just drained away, and many of the new players have not known anything different. This just puts everyone on the back foot, makes everyone edgy and everyone petrified of the next mistake.. Easy to imagine that the focus after early matches has been about stopping the rot : focus on the mistakes, or trying to prevent them - focus on the parts of someones game that is not their strength. It happens so often, and the Championship and the PL are both full of examples this season. That is why we look petrified everytime we take the lead! The fear of losing the lead, making the mistake that leads to a goal is at the very heart of every player - this is why I dont subscribe to the accusation that players don't care. My fear is that Sami has lost confidence. the players have lost it and the longer nothing changes the worse it will get. I don't think a victory on Friday unless it is so totally convincing will make a difference. The victory against Wigan didn't.

 

[mikeyjh]

If I may be so bold, I'd make two points about your squad. 1) Your midfield is not good enough, but I think you already know that - And quite why Hyppia doesn't pick Ince, I don't know. Only player that left an impression on Saturday. 2) No leadership - This may come from the top, but Dunk is the captain right now? I don't think he's a leader, nobody seems to be the one to take the game by the proverbial scruff of the neck.

 

[Gwylan]

Two questions: who is the person who thinks that top two is our par position? And what has he or she been smoking?

 

[1066familyman]

Bottom 3rd with the current squad. Look at where the goals were supposed to come from.......??Look at the midfield and try to find some leaders/creativity....look at the amount of defensive minded midfielders we have....look at the quality we have parted company with......I could go on, but what's the point. Most people can see this.

That about sums it up for me. Can't argue with any of that.