What do we do about Ireland/NI, Tariff Free deal and Fishing

[WATFORD zero]

I do believe something will get sorted, it always does when big money is involved but there will be a lot of chaos before that happens.

A view, but not a proposed solution to where we find ourselves. Simple factual solutions, only please, no personal views

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

A view, but not a proposed solution to where we find ourselves. Simple factual solutions, only please, no personal views

Have you contacted your MP yet
Regards
DF

 

[daveinprague]

Have you contacted your MP yet
Regards
DF

Have you contacted any work agencies yet?

 

[Chicken Run]

We are where we are and whatever has happened in the past is history. These are the three main issues which we, as a nation, have to resolve within the next couple of weeks.

1. What is going to happen about the Ireland/NI border ?
The withdrawal agreement had an Irish Sea border, but the Government have now said there will be no Irish sea procedures or documentation and the EU are accusing us of breaking International Law, so where should the border between the UK and EU be ?

2. What is going to happen about a tariff free deal ?
Why would the EU allow us tariff free access to all their huge markets with no control to stop our companies undercutting their companies by changing 'our' rules on Government subsidies, Animal welfare, Safety, Worker welfare, additives, preservatives etc etc ? The so-called Level Playing Field.

3 What is going to happen about fishing.
Given that the fishing industry exports the majority of it's catch, is tariff free access to the EU critical to the whole industry going forward ? And, given that it's a smaller part of the UK economy than Harrod's, how much consideration should be given to it.

'No Deal' could be a solution to 2 & 3, but at quite significant cost and still doesn't resolve 1.

These have to be resolved in the next couple of weeks, and neither myself or [MENTION=534]Chicken Run[/MENTION] could come up with any suggested solutions that would resolve these.

It really doesn't matter what you voted or what anyone else did. Can anyone suggest a solution ?

Sit down with the Irish & NI representatives and amend the GFA?

 

[Chicken Run]

What about a trade/customs only crossings on the border?

 

[nicko31]

What about a trade/customs only crossings on the border?

So border infrastructure? There are 300 crossing points

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Sit down with the Irish & NI representatives and amend the GFA?

The GFA isn't a rigid agreement as some people think it is, oh well best of flogging the dead horse
Regards
DF

 

[Chicken Run]

So border infrastructure? There are 300 crossing points

Mmmm, good point, maybe have designated trade crossings?

 

[nicko31]

Mmmm, good point, maybe have designated trade crossings?

If the border wasn't so politically sensitive and the UK agreed to adhere to EU standards a Swiss style solution could work, ie customs checks and freedom of movement.

 

[WATFORD zero]

If the border wasn't so politically sensitive and the UK agreed to adhere to EU standards a Swiss style solution could work, ie customs checks and freedom of movement.

But if the UK agreed to adhere to EU standards, I believe there would be various options for both Ireland/NI and the trade deal. (Fishing still O/S). Trouble is if it was simply standards, that wouldn't be sufficient for a Free Trade Deal. I believe it's the whole level playing field that would need to be agreed. (And that not adhering to EU rules was a major reason for Brexit).

You're right in that it's the political sensitivity of the border that's another of the issues.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Sit down with the Irish & NI representatives and amend the GFA?

In the long run Ireland and NI re-uniting would resolve it as they would both be in the EU, but that would be a Looonnng game. Look how long and how much negotiation it took to stop the worst of the violence, which was something everyone wanted.

(Not particularly relevant, but the only time Ireland has been United in the last millennium was actually as part of Britain, so it's not really re-uniting )

 

[Chicken Run]

In the long run Ireland and NI re-uniting would resolve it as they would both be in the EU, but that would be a Looonnng game.

(Not particularly relevant, but the only time Ireland has been United in the last millennium was actually as part of Britain, so it's not really re-uniting )

5 or six trade goods areas at various points on the border similar to the stations you see weighing lorry’s surely could work no?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Mmmm, good point, maybe have designated trade crossings?

5 or six trade goods areas at various points on the border similar to the stations you see weighing lorry’s surely could work no?

But you then have to deal with smuggling across the whole border outside of those crossings. Those crossings would need be major as they would need to process all procedures, standards, tariffs etc, same as all UK ports. Unless there was a free trade deal of course, but to get that the UK would have to agree to EU regulations, and the border wouldn't be needed.

 

[Chicken Run]

But you then have to deal with smuggling across the whole border outside of those crossings. Those crossings would need be major as they would need to process all procedures, standards, tariffs etc, same as all ports Unless there was a free trade deal of course, but to get that the UK would have to agree to EU regulations, and the border wouldn't be needed.

Mmm tricky, I’ll give it some more thought, thank you for your considered answers.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Mmm tricky, I’ll give it some more thought, thank you for your considered answers.

It's in all our interests to find an answer

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Clearly no easy answers but in two words: we negotiate. This means trade-offs. Which means taking a hit on something to get something else. This is not easy to do when you paint yourself into a corner and raise unrealistic expectations. I'd be willing to take a hit on fisheries to preserve tariff free trade. I'd go for the border in the Irish Sea. I'd try and fudge the rest. The deal must give both sides something to 'take back'/save face. The problem with Johnson's position is that he's put himself into a position where he can't give anything without being torn to pieces by the loons in the ERG who he has cultivated.
This needs statecraft of a high level, not sloganeering and cheap populism. (Just look at this morning's reported gaffe about devolution being a 'disaster'.)

 

[WATFORD zero]

Clearly no easy answers but in two words: we negotiate. This means trade-offs. Which means taking a hit on something to get something else. This is not easy to do when you paint yourself into a corner and raise unrealistic expectations. I'd be willing to take a hit on fisheries to preserve tariff free trade. I'd go for the border in the Irish Sea. I'd try and fudge the rest. The deal must give both sides something to 'take back'/save face. The problem with Johnson's position is that he's put himself into a position where he can't give anything without being torn to pieces by the loons in the ERG who he has cultivated.
This needs statecraft of a high level, not sloganeering and cheap populism. (Just look at this morning's reported gaffe about devolution being a 'disaster'.)

I agree that it's down to Trade offs. I'm not convinced the EU would accept a Free Trade deal with no level playing field in exchange for fishing rights. The free trade deal is worth Trillions of pounds over the next few years, compared to a fishing industry which has a smaller effect on GDP than Harrod's.

I agree that the Government will have to U-turn on the Border in the Irish Sea as the only other alternative I can see is Theresa May's backstop that she negotiated specifically to avoid the Irish Sea border.

 

[nicko31]

In the long run Ireland and NI re-uniting would resolve it as they would both be in the EU, but that would be a Looonnng game. Look how long and how much negotiation it took to stop the worst of the violence, which was something everyone wanted.

(Not particularly relevant, but the only time Ireland has been United in the last millennium was actually as part of Britain, so it's not really re-uniting )

The Ulster Unionists only represent a few hundred thousand but they value the Union far more than your average English person and the average English person has very little understanding of NI. If there was a proper understanding Brexit would not have happened

I've spent some time in NI, I'm not sure if reunification would ever be accepted by this group. The EU SM was the foundation for peace in Ireland and made way for the historic GFA, it effectively created a UK/Ireland Schengen free travel area. This peace bonds our unity of nations

 

[Chicken Run]

The Ulster Unionists only represent a few hundred thousand but they value the Union far more than your average English person and the average English person has very little understanding of NI. If there was a proper understanding Brexit would not have happened

I've spent some time in NI, I'm not sure if reunification would ever be accepted by this group. The EU SM was the foundation for peace in Ireland and made way for the historic GFA, it effectively created a UK/Ireland Schengen free travel area. This peace bonds our unity of nations

All very true but tbf the NI situation alone imho wouldn’t have been enough to stop people voting Brexit.

 

[WATFORD zero]

. If there was a proper understanding Brexit would not have happened

All very true but tbf the NI situation alone imho wouldn’t have been enough to stop people voting Brexit.

Opinions, and all in the past. Solutions going forward only please