West CML RAIL BID DITCHED.

[beorhthelm]

We've already had stupid decisions being signed off by Ministers on the capability of the two new RN aircraft carriers, and what kind of aircraft they should be equipped with.

this example only serves to demonstrate ministers are only as good as the advice offered. many commentors have questioned the cost of the refit (iirc the ships were specificaly designed with the gaps required incase catapults needed, so it shouldnt cost too much - who has an interest in making it expensive?) and the original requirement to use an untested new (and potential flawed?) VTOL aircraft when other established alternatives are available for a fraction the cost. just who advised that, and were they thinking of their role at the MoD or future careers at BAE?

 

[Pavilionaire]

First Group's shares have fallen 15% in value on the back of this. Career civil servants deciding the fate of large corporations but having no experience in jack shit. This really is a Transport Omnishambles, it doesn't come much bigger.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Well, if the Virgin Revenue and Finance team are that good, shouldn't they be the ones scrutinising the decision making process, and certainly not the D of T and a Politician?

In the private sector, you'll only ever get the top job if you've had experience at the 'coal face'. That's why people like Alan Sugar and Richard Branson know what their doing, because they've made errors that have cost them dear, and learned from their mistakes, but more importantly, they understand the catastrophic effects of getting a decision wrong. That makes them even more scrupilous than ever before when committing sums of money. It's called dilligence. Something Politicians completely lack, the only thing that matters to them is re-election.

The conclusion is that if you want a job done properly, don't ask a politician. Ask someone who's done the job before.

I don't really care if the railways are publically or privately owned, but I do expect that those people running them, or making the decision as to who should run them, are the best that there is. It's what I pay my fare, and my taxes, to ensure. The whole thing smacks exactly of the kind of culture that lead to the atrocious safety culture at Railtrack, lets see how we can milk the railway for as much money as possible, while investing as little as we can.

Everyone remembers the service (or lack of) provided by Connex, on the basis of unsustainable traffic and revenue forecasts. No-one seems to have learned the lessons from it though.

" Mr Bacon was speaking as the influential Commons public accounts committee published its report into the South Eastern Passenger Rail Franchise. The report states that Connex made an over-ambitious bid for the franchise in 1996 and had run into financial difficulties by 2001. Connex chose to try and resolve these difficulties internally and did not keep the Strategic Rail Authority (SRA) fully aware of its problems.

Both parties agreed a £60 million ‘deed of amendment’ in 2002 which required Connex to make changes to its financial management, control and reporting arrangements. Frustrated by the slow progress of these changes, the SRA terminated the franchise in June 2003. "

 

[Pavilionaire]

Politicians are just figureheads, they get reshuffled before they've ever mastered their brief. It's the civil servants who've screwed up here too. Omnishambles.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Monumental cock-up with this. Should point out that Virgin wont actually be running it after Dec 13th (unless DfT decide otherwise) - a Government company called Directly Operated Railways would be - basically what is happening on East Coast at present and they have improved that massively.

This will also delay future franchise renewals too, including Thameslink. No doubt it may also affect the order of new trains.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Monumental cock-up with this. Should point out that Virgin wont actually be running it after Dec 13th (unless DfT decide otherwise) - a Government company called Directly Operated Railways would be - basically what is happening on East Coast at present and they have improved that massively.

This will also delay future franchise renewals too, including Thameslink. No doubt it may also affect the order of new trains.

According to the BBC who I guess are quoting the government, Virgin will continue to operate the line until a solution is found.

 

[glasfryn]

I get the impression that against sensible advise Cameron and Osborne called this. Virtually everyone questioned First's figures apart from those two.

public school education is shite either that or they spent too much time fagging for one another

 

[GreersElbow]

If they can't manage contracts for railways, I dread to think what the NHS will be like in a few years time with their top-down re-organisation.

 

[BLOCK F]

public school education is shite either that or they spent too much time fagging for one another

Well,they didn't go to the same public school so both your pronouncements are wrong!

 

[Storer 68]

Politicians are just figureheads, they get reshuffled before they've ever mastered their brief. It's the civil servants who've screwed up here too. Omnishambles.

Strange isn't it than when a decision goes well, then its the ministers who garner all the credit and praise, yet when there's a cock up (and as a civil servant, this is a monumental one!) its the officials who get it in the neck.

Oh and I shouldn't get to cross if I wer you, the Civil Service is just about to reduced by hundreds of thousands to a small core of officials who will simply do the minister's bidding, so you can expect awhole lot more of these costly f@@k ups in the future.

 

[Albion Dan]

Well, if the Virgin Revenue and Finance team are that good, shouldn't they be the ones scrutinising the decision making process, and certainly not the D of T and a Politician?"

Eh? That doesnt make any sense? How can you scrutinise your own and your competitiors bid? Would be even dodgier than the DfTs farce. For the record the DfT employ spectacuarly expensive consultants to run the evaluation, in this instance I believe it was Atkins.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

According to the BBC who I guess are quoting the government, Virgin will continue to operate the line until a solution is found.

The same government who said there was absolutely nothing wrong with the bidding process ?

Would assume its either DOR to run it like East Coast, or Virgin not-for-profit.

 

[Triggaaar]

Monumental cock-up with this. Should point out that Virgin wont actually be running it after Dec 13th (unless DfT decide otherwise) - a Government company called Directly Operated Railways would be - basically what is happening on East Coast at present and they have improved that massively.

So a government company is running a network, and doing it well - I wonder if there could be a future in this? We know that large public organisations fail because they're too unwieldy, and there's no reward for success. Can a smaller government organisation, with the country's interests at heart, improve things and move on to another network before passing each on to tender?

 

[Albion Dan]

The same government who said there was absolutely nothing wrong with the bidding process ?

Would assume its either DOR to run it like East Coast, or Virgin not-for-profit.

The cost to rebrand everything from Virgin to DOR would be yet more ridiculous financial waste.

 

[Albion Dan]

So a government company is running a network, and doing it well - I wonder if there could be a future in this? We know that large public organisations fail because they're too unwieldy, and there's no reward for success. Can a smaller government organisation, with the country's interests at heart, improve things and move on to another network before passing each on to tender?

East Coast is certainly no more successfull in relative terms than other rail operators, in fact it is lagging behind quite a few (Virgin included) on revenue peformance. Dont believe the Bob Crow hype.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Eh? That doesnt make any sense? How can you scrutinise your own and your competitiors bid? Would be even dodgier than the DfTs farce. For the record the DfT employ spectacuarly expensive consultants to run the evaluation, in this instance I believe it was Atkins.

Well that's exactly what Virgin did, in order to flag up the DfT's flawed decision making process. So yes, I can't see why you can't scrutinise your competitors bids, it's the most obvious way to root out any lies and fraudulent statements. Doesn't mean you're the person making the decision, it's more akin to a hospital consultant giving a second opinion - but you can point out why you don't think the criteria stack up to a credible offer.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Several poster's here have remarked about R/B starting off as a Barrow boy,should that be the case i would suggest he know's the difference of a good or bad deal from street level experience and as he has built his empire up maybe he has built up a tried and tested team and then when a deal like the WCML does pear-shaped he has the team that know's what to do and how to do it unlike HM Govt ?

 

[Beach Hut]

This is one f***ing huge cock-up beyond belief in my view.

I am starting to question just what the government is now doing, total shambles

 

[8ace]

William Hill - To Be Awarded The West Coast Rail Contract:
1/2 Virgin
3/1 First Group
8/1 Serco
9/1 Govia
100/1 re-nationalisation

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

The cost to rebrand everything from Virgin to DOR would be yet more ridiculous financial waste.

Remove some logos ? Wouldnt be more than that i wouldnt have thought. Although all the promised improvements would be delayed as the government wouldnt fund them (IE new electric trains, new trains to Blackpool and Bolton).