West CML RAIL BID DITCHED.

[Leekbrookgull]

Firstgroups winning bid to run the WCML is to be over turned and a new bidding process is to begin. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19809717

 

[Albion Dan]

Virgin Trains

So the government have admitted they screwed up the bid evaluation and the result is scrapped. The irony is that they are saying that Virgin are still going to be replaced....... By the Goverment. You couldn't make it up.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

f***ing joke this government. Justine Greening is a f***ing amateur. At least they have now moved on from budget u-turns.

 

[Albion Dan]

All four bidders to receive compenation. Our bid (virgin) cost £14m. Ouch.

 

[Simster]

Re: Virgin Trains

All four bidders to receive compenation. Our bid (virgin) cost £14m. Ouch.

It's alright, this f*** up can always be paid for by slashing disability benefits again.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

All four bidders to receive compenation. Our bid (virgin) cost £14m. Ouch.

So, the deal which was supposedly the best for the tax payer has cost the tax payer millions. Genius. The Tories had better borrow some more money.

 

[cirC]

I wonder just who makes the decision on the bids or for that matter evaluates them.I cannot believe that ministers have the intellect to do that.
The mandarins in the relevant ministries must do the evaluations and then feed the ministers the info.Perhaps a few sackings and fines for the lower minions might concentrate a few minds towards doing the job well.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Don't worry people, caring One Nation Labour is around the corner.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I wonder just who makes the decision on the bids or for that matter evaluates them.I cannot believe that ministers have the intellect to do that.
The mandarins in the relevant ministries must do the evaluations and then feed the ministers the info.Perhaps a few sackings and fines for the lower minions might concentrate a few minds towards doing the job well.

I get the impression that against sensible advise Cameron and Osborne called this. Virtually everyone questioned First's figures apart from those two.

 

[beorhthelm]

So the government have admitted they screwed up the bid evaluation and the result is scrapped. The irony is that they are saying that Virgin are still going to be replaced....... By the Goverment. You couldn't make it up.

you mean the government has finally admitted a mistake and now restarted the bidding process, in order to provide a level playing field and avoid further legal challenges. government does something wrong we moan, government fixes it we moan. you could make it up. (actually we do all the time).

the underlyuing issue here, along with other high profile cock ups like the Siemens train deal is lack of transparency and poor approach to matters, then a lack of reporting details by the media, so the reasons get lost in the noise of headlines and writers their personal politics. if a tender is weighted to encourage the cheapest you'll find the cheapest wins, even if what you wanted was the best value or best quality.

 

[brighton rock]

Branson was wright it was a fiddle which will cost all us tax payers millions to put wright
More brown envelopes under the table

 

[mikeyjh]

you mean the government has finally admitted a mistake and now restarted the bidding process, in order to provide a level playing field and avoid further legal challenges. government does something wrong we moan, government fixes it we moan. you could make it up. (actually we do all the time).

Of course you're right, but dig a little deeper. Had it been that on day 1 when a lot of sensible commentators were raising an eyebrow, the govt says okay the decision stands but we'll take a look at this, have a review of the process etc etc, then fine A bit of a cock up, we move on. But that's not what happened is it? They were intransigent, the decision has been made, the process was fair etc etc, they absolutely dug their heels in. And then six weeks later.....

I was never likely to support many policies of this government, but their incompetence has been staggering.....

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Firstgroups winning bid to run the WCML is to be over turned and a new bidding process is to begin. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19809717

I'm not surprised, according to the figures provided by First Group for growing passenger numbers on WCML in their bid they were capable of accomodating more passengers than they actually had trains to fit them all into. And somehow their bid failed to explain how this 'accomodation' issue could be resolved. Perhaps they were planning on having the passengers sitting on the carriage roof and hanging out of the doors like they do in India?

If the underlying logic that the figures are based on is that fundamentaly flawed, then the figures are as well.........

A classic case of 1+1 = 6 , because I say it does, not because it actually does so in reality.

The funniest thing is that it was Richard Branson who pointed out the fundamental errors in his competitors calculations - why didn't the Civil Servants at D of T spot them as well? Or were they just told by their Minister to pick the bidder who offered the highest amount of money?

Is their mathematics not up to basic arithmetic?

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

I wonder just who makes the decision on the bids or for that matter evaluates them.I cannot believe that ministers have the intellect to do that.
The mandarins in the relevant ministries must do the evaluations and then feed the ministers the info.Perhaps a few sackings and fines for the lower minions might concentrate a few minds towards doing the job well.

If the Ministers don't have the intellect to run the country (which is what we have elected them to do), then WTF are they doing in power................

Richard Branson spotted the flaws in the process and he started off as a barrow boy at a market, if these Ministers all went to Eton, Oxford and Cambridge then they can't all be thick as pigsh!t, or are they?

And all the money WASTED in the bidding process would have been more usefully spent on building new trains and upgrading the track. Instead it's been spent on POINTLESS beaurocracy and Red Tape.

The fact is that a single, vertically intergrated organisation, has a much better ability to control costs and target investment in a most efficient manner. Split an organisation into a myriad of seperate groups who won't talk to each other (like the TOC's and Network Rail), and won't co-operate with each other, and all you get is a blame game of staggering complexity, that even a Harvard Professor would struggle to comprehend. The only people who win are the people who get paid for writing tortuous tender documents and lawyers paid to make sure that their contracts are watertight enough to prevent the individual organisations being sued because they can pass the buck to someone else. Instead of one rail organisation controlled by one board of directors, and one strategy, we have umpteen organisations, upteen strategies, and none of them are co-ordibnated to work with each other. Result. Duplication of resources, money spent on projects that fail to deliver the mission objective, and a faliure in control and governance. It's as if Monty and Eisenhower had been told to organise D-Day without letting the Army, Navy and Air-Force talk and co-ordinate with each other, so you end up with the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, because the brain is too busy dotting the I's and crossing the T's.

 

[ditchy]

I wonder if this is why Justine Greening was replaced at Dept of Transport ?

 

[cirC]

If the Ministers don't have the intellect to run the country (which is what we have elected them to do), then WTF are they doing in power................

Richard Branson spotted the flaws in the process and he started off as a barrow boy at a market, if these Ministers all went to Eton, Oxford and Cambridge then they can't all be thick as pigsh!t, or are they?

And all the money WASTED in the bidding process would have been more usefully spent on building new trains and upgrading the track. Instead it's been spent on POINTLESS beaurocracy and Red Tape.

Correct,but they are in power because the public voted that way.Whether it's labour,tory or lib dems they get into power because we vote.
The majority of Mp's are not fit to be in parliament but........the public voted.That though is another ?.

 

[beorhthelm]

If the Ministers don't have the intellect to run the country (which is what we have elected them to do), then WTF are they doing in power................

Richard Branson spotted the flaws in the process and he started off as a barrow boy at a market, if these Ministers all went to Eton, Oxford and Cambridge then they can't all be thick as pigsh!t, or are they?

is this rhetorical? if serious, you only need to spin a good line to a local constituency group then get voted in to make it to parliament. there's no intelligence test though most are pretty clever people (even if one doesnt like their flavour of politics).

however, how do you know Branson himself spoted the flaws and not his Rail Operations adviser? if he had spotted himself, he's had a few years more experience hasnt he? ministers generally know bugger all about the area they cover going in, we dont usually employ ex-service man as Defense Secratary, ex-nurses as health ministers etc. more's the pity. mimisters determine policy and sign off decisions, its the civil service that provide guidance and execute decisions, always has been.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

is this rhetorical? if serious, you only need to spin a good line to a local constituency group then get voted in to make it to parliament. there's no intelligence test though most are pretty clever people (even if one doesnt like their flavour of politics).

however, how do you know Branson himself spoted the flaws and not his Rail Operations adviser? if he had spotted himself, he's had a few years more experience hasnt he? ministers generally know bugger all about the area they cover going in, we dont usually employ ex-service man as Defense Secratary, ex-nurses as health ministers etc. more's the pity. mimisters determine policy and sign off decisions, its the civil service that provide guidance and execute decisions, always has been.

The buck stops with them, wether they are 'qualified' to do the job or not. They're already paid a very handsome salary as an MP, and even more as a Minister. It's their responsibility to NOT ONLY sign off decisions, but REFUSE to sign off decisions that are fundamentaly flawed, even if the decision would have fitted in with their policy.

We've already had stupid decisions being signed off by Ministers on the capability of the two new RN aircraft carriers, and what kind of aircraft they should be equipped with. One administration wanted exactly the reverse level of equipment to the other, with the result that what might have been an option to equip them with less expensive aircraft (with no VTOL capability), would have had the consequences that the carriers themselves, half-way through construction, would have needed massive and expensive modfications (to fit catapaults or ramps), completely outweighing the cost savings in the aircraft.

As I said in an earlier post, when your making this kind of decision, you establish a strategy, and you stick to it regardless. You don't muddy the waters by dithering and constantly moving the goalposts. In project management it's called 'spec (or mission) creep', and it ALWAYS causes cost overruns.

If you are charged with making a decision, you should make sure your decisions are watertight and copper bottomed, because it's YOUR neck on the line, NOT you subordinates. That's REAL accountability.

 

[Brovion]

If the Ministers don't have the intellect to run the country (which is what we have elected them to do), then WTF are they doing in power................

Richard Branson spotted the flaws in the process and he started off as a barrow boy at a market, if these Ministers all went to Eton, Oxford and Cambridge then they can't all be thick as pigsh!t, or are they?

And all the money WASTED in the bidding process would have been more usefully spent on building new trains and upgrading the track. Instead it's been spent on POINTLESS beaurocracy and Red Tape.

The fact is that a single, vertically intergrated organisation, has a much better ability to control costs and target investment in a most efficient manner. Split an organisation into a myriad of seperate groups who won't talk to each other (like the TOC's and Network Rail), and won't co-operate with each other, and all you get is a blame game of staggering complexity, that even a Harvard Professor would struggle to comprehend. The only people who win are the people who get paid for writing tortuous tender documents and lawyers paid to make sure that their contracts are watertight enough to prevent the individual organisations being sued because they can pass the buck to someone else. Instead of one rail organisation controlled by one board of directors, and one strategy, we have umpteen organisations, upteen strategies, and none of them are co-ordibnated to work with each other. Result. Duplication of resources, money spent on projects that fail to deliver the mission objective, and a faliure in control and governance. It's as if Monty and Eisenhower had been told to organise D-Day without letting the Army, Navy and Air-Force talk and co-ordinate with each other, so you end up with the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, because the brain is too busy dotting the I's and crossing the T's.

Spot on. And your last paragraph, with only a very few alterations, also neatly sums up the organisation of the NHS. My wife's managers, (she's a district nurse) when asked what their main priority was, replied "making sure we don't lose the contract". You might think that the best way to ensure that would be to provide the best possible care to the patients ..... but you'd be wrong. (Going off topic here, sorry).

 

[Albion Dan]

is this rhetorical? if serious, you only need to spin a good line to a local constituency group then get voted in to make it to parliament. there's no intelligence test though most are pretty clever people (even if one doesnt like their flavour of politics).

however, how do you know Branson himself spoted the flaws and not his Rail Operations adviser? if he had spotted himself, he's had a few years more experience hasnt he? ministers generally know bugger all about the area they cover going in, we dont usually employ ex-service man as Defense Secratary, ex-nurses as health ministers etc. more's the pity. mimisters determine policy and sign off decisions, its the civil service that provide guidance and execute decisions, always has been.

Trust me it wasnt Branson himself that spotted the flaws but an incredibly talented Revenue and Finance team! It wasnt that hard to see though and should never have been allowed. Unforgivable. To think people were calling us sore losers and that we should just accept the decision, within the industry as well as in the public.