[Football] West Brom sack Darren Moore

[colonies man]

There's loads.
Off the top of my head...

Mickey Adams Mk 1
Peter Taylor
Pep Guardiola
Brendan Rogers
Sam Allardyce
Jose Mourinho
Jurgen Klopp

All those managers have left clubs of their own accord to move on.

I was not really talking about managers thinking a move was a career improvement.I believe if CH was sacked or resigned in the future he would not find it easy to find a better job.I agree his record in the Championship would attract interest from that division,but watching the current performances I don’t believe he would find a position in the Premier.

 

[MJsGhost]

Does anyone know why Darren Moore is referred to as 'Big Dave' by West Brom fans but 'Moore-o' by the rest of the football family?

“Big Dave” was a big black guy on Pot Noodle adverts when he started playing for them.

 

[crodonilson]

“Big Dave” was a big black guy on Pot Noodle adverts when he started playing for them.

Ahh, so just some casual racism from the West Brom fans then. 'Moore-o' is a far better nickname anyway.

 

[Easy 10]

“Big Dave” was a big black guy on Pot Noodle adverts when he started playing for them.

Yep.

 

[Gwylan]

I believe if CH was sacked or resigned in the future he would not find it easy to find a better job.I agree his record in the Championship would attract interest from that division,but watching the current performances I don’t believe he would find a position in the Premier.

You're changing your stance now. First of all you said that if we were relegated then the board would look to replace Hughton with someone better - a view I think is crazy - CH is probably the best manager for any Championship club.

What you're now saying is that if Hughton were sacked after we were relegated then he'd find it hard to get a PL job. I don't disagree with that at all; his specialty is taking teams up. If we were mad enough to get rid of him, there'd a queue of Championship clubs calling for him.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

CH is doing a great job keeping us out of the relegation zone, for 2 seasons, given our relatively paltry player wages budget. Almost everyone other club is deliberately spending big on wages, to attract readymade ‘names’ and top flight quality players.

View attachment 107455

Thanks, I just read the article that was posted. Like anything, this particular chart needs to be taken with some context though. Firstly, it's last year and I agree 100% that CH did well to keep us up last year. So in this regard we're in agreement.

However, we're a year on. We've had a year more of spending money. We've had a year more of spending bigger on wages. And the reality is we've not had a year of real progress on the pitch. Arguably, we've gone backward. Now people can point to football finances all they want, but there's going to come a point where we will need to start expecting more than just pure survival each year whilst playing really unattractive football. Burnley, for example, are just above us yet they got into Europe last year. Watford this year have gone further in a cup competition and are threatening Europe. We should be aspiring to be better, not sitting here being grateful for turgid football and a lack of progress just because we're happy to be in the top flight. And I appreciate a lot of people disagree with that, but that's my personal view.

 

[Weststander]

Thanks, I just read the article that was posted. Like anything, this particular chart needs to be taken with some context though. Firstly, it's last year and I agree 100% that CH did well to keep us up last year. So in this regard we're in agreement.

However, we're a year on. We've had a year more of spending money. We've had a year more of spending bigger on wages. And the reality is we've not had a year of real progress on the pitch. Arguably, we've gone backward. Now people can point to football finances all they want, but there's going to come a point where we will need to start expecting more than just pure survival each year whilst playing really unattractive football. Burnley, for example, are just above us yet they got into Europe last year. Watford this year have gone further in a cup competition and are threatening Europe. We should be aspiring to be better, not sitting here being grateful for turgid football and a lack of progress just because we're happy to be in the top flight. And I appreciate a lot of people disagree with that, but that's my personal view.

Ahead of the game, I recently asked [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] on a similar thread (people slagging off CH), where we are in 2018/19 wages. His educated estimate was that we're still right down there in the very bottom grouping. Confirming IMO that CH has to operate with most likely inferior players as a whole, compared to a wide array of clubs spending mental on names and internationals.

 

[MJsGhost]

Ahh, so just some casual racism from the West Brom fans then. 'Moore-o' is a far better nickname anyway.

Filed away under BANTZ though, so nothing to see here...

 

[Gazwag]

“Big Dave” was a big black guy on Pot Noodle adverts when he started playing for them.

Ahh, so just some casual racism from the West Brom fans then. 'Moore-o' is a far better nickname anyway.

I think you will find that's "unproven"

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Ahead of the game, I recently asked [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] on a similar thread (people slagging off CH), where we are in 2018/19 wages. His educated estimate was that we're still right down there in the very bottom grouping. Confirming IMO that CH has to operate with most likely inferior players as a whole, compared to a wide array of clubs spending mental on names and internationals.

Lower wages isn't always a sign of inferior players though, is it. Furthermore, as pointed out in my previous post, other clubs with lower wages punch above their weight regularly through good management, the right signings, developing players and being tactically better than the opposition. It also goes without saying that we would have lower wages as we've spent a large portion of our recent time in the Championship and clubs' wage bills etc only tend to increase in line with regular exposure to the Premier League. I would expect this to increase over the next few years in line with our continued time in this league.

I guess the question is how long we go on accepting bad football when the results really aren't good either? Maybe a lot of fans are happy to just be in the top division and surviving. Maybe the board and TB are similarly happy with that. But the more we become and are treated like customers rather than fans (and our club are doing this more and more regularly), the more right we have to expect either better results or better football. At least that's my opinion. I appreciate if you don't agree with that though.

 

[Weststander]

Lower wages isn't always a sign of inferior players though, is it. Furthermore, as pointed out in my previous post, other clubs with lower wages punch above their weight regularly through good management, the right signings, developing players and being tactically better than the opposition. It also goes without saying that we would have lower wages as we've spent a large portion of our recent time in the Championship and clubs' wage bills etc only tend to increase in line with regular exposure to the Premier League. I would expect this to increase over the next few years in line with our continued time in this league.

I guess the question is how long we go on accepting bad football when the results really aren't good either? Maybe a lot of fans are happy to just be in the top division and surviving. Maybe the board and TB are similarly happy with that. But the more we become and are treated like customers rather than fans (and our club are doing this more and more regularly), the more right we have to expect either better results or better football. At least that's my opinion. I appreciate if you don't agree with that though.

There’s a proven link from sports academics, of a strong correlation between PL wage spend and final league position.

Obviously with some anomolies each season, such as LCFC winning the league, but the overall correlation is strong.

Greated player wages budget = acquire/better players = higher PL league position over time.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

There’s a proven link from sports academics, of a strong correlation between PL wage spend and final league position.

Obviously with some anomolies each season, such as LCFC winning the league, but the overall correlation is strong.

Greated player wages budget = acquire/better players = higher PL league position over time.

For sure, but using that logic alone would mean that promoted teams would almost always go back down as they almost always have the lowest wage bills (the odd exception like Newcastle aside). In reality, consistent squads, a clear tactical plan and a togetherness tend to bring a lot of promoted clubs through that first season and from then on they can build by earning more and, consequently, paying more.

So, back to my question - how long do we go on accepting bad results AND bad performances?

 

[Weststander]

For sure, but using that logic alone would mean that promoted teams would almost always go back down as they almost always have the lowest wage bills (the odd exception like Newcastle aside). In reality, consistent squads, a clear tactical plan and a togetherness tend to bring a lot of promoted clubs through that first season and from then on they can build by earning more and, consequently, paying more.

So, back to my question - how long do we go on accepting bad results AND bad performances?

Everyone has their opinion on that.

To me, our squad lacks a PL class centre midfield three (in its entirety). Once we have that ... shirley this summer .... then lets’s see how CH gets on ALL OF next season.

If we’re still losing most games, getting beaten at home by relegation rivals, and playing drab football come next May, then perhaps CH’s number is up. Said with a heavy heart.

 

[redoubtable seagull]

For sure, but using that logic alone would mean that promoted teams would almost always go back down as they almost always have the lowest wage bills (the odd exception like Newcastle aside). In reality, consistent squads, a clear tactical plan and a togetherness tend to bring a lot of promoted clubs through that first season and from then on they can build by earning more and, consequently, paying more.

So, back to my question - how long do we go on accepting bad results AND bad performances?

Suggest you read the book Soccernomics, which supports the point Westander has suggested. Wages paid has a strong correlation on league position over the long term; money spent on transfer fees does not.

 

[Beach Seagull]

I personally have reservations about CHs ability to take us to "the next level", whatever that means for a club like us (although I'm more than willing to be proven wrong). What I have no reservations about is his ability to get us back in the Prem if we go down.

Very well said and I totally agree. I guess the next level is 10-12th place on a regular basis, but look at Stoke they reached that level and look what happened to them. All it takes is one bad transfer window (losing a couple of big players and not adequately replacing them) and the years of 'consolidation' go out of the window, the PL is an unforgiving league.

 

[Seasider78]

Thanks, I just read the article that was posted. Like anything, this particular chart needs to be taken with some context though. Firstly, it's last year and I agree 100% that CH did well to keep us up last year. So in this regard we're in agreement.

However, we're a year on. We've had a year more of spending money. We've had a year more of spending bigger on wages. And the reality is we've not had a year of real progress on the pitch. Arguably, we've gone backward. Now people can point to football finances all they want, but there's going to come a point where we will need to start expecting more than just pure survival each year whilst playing really unattractive football. Burnley, for example, are just above us yet they got into Europe last year. Watford this year have gone further in a cup competition and are threatening Europe. We should be aspiring to be better, not sitting here being grateful for turgid football and a lack of progress just because we're happy to be in the top flight. And I appreciate a lot of people disagree with that, but that's my personal view.

Last season we stayed remarkably injury free and the team held their own and we survived. In the summer I would say we improved the squad but really didn’t hugely improve the starting 11. With the injuries this season the squad has meant we have held our own and if we stay up then that is progress of sorts as I am not sure our squad last season would have coped.

I am hoping in the summer we are looking at players who can hit the ground running and be guaranteed starting 11 calibre and we should push on as you say.

For that reason I would say Hughton is doing a decent job at the moment but clearly we all want to see some more quality and attacking intent next season.

 

[El Presidente]

I was given information, but I asked (legitimately) where that information came from; I had no idea who he was so no landmine has been jumped on. And his information still doesn't deter from my original point.

People are allowed to ask basic questions without having people jump down their throat.

The information is from the audited accounts of clubs which are filed at Companies House

 

[Springal]

Everyone has their opinion on that.

To me, our squad lacks a PL class centre midfield three (in its entirety). Once we have that ... shirley this summer .... then lets’s see how CH gets on ALL OF next season.

.

Do you know think strikers is a problem? Murray is 36 in September. Andone hasn’t really got going and jury still out on Locadia

 

[BN41Albion]

Last season we stayed remarkably injury free and the team held their own and we survived. In the summer I would say we improved the squad but really didn’t hugely improve the starting 11. With the injuries this season the squad has meant we have held our own and if we stay up then that is progress of sorts as I am not sure our squad last season would have coped.

I am hoping in the summer we are looking at players who can hit the ground running and be guaranteed starting 11 calibre and we should push on as you say.

For that reason I would say Hughton is doing a decent job at the moment but clearly we all want to see some more quality and attacking intent next season.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. This summer we can't afford to by a load of players who (at least in CH's eyes) need months to get used to the Prem... (And still look average at best if we're honest in some cases this season). The midfield is key for me I think this summer. I trust Andone to be able to kick on and I still have a feeling Locadia could come good, although I we do feel we need another option up top - we really cannot be relying on Murray next season.

 

[Simster]

Given what we know about our playing budget and the past 4 years of Chris Hughton at this club, I would respectfully suggest we are miles and miles away from parting company. I'd say the vast majority of fans probably agree with me but worry that people shouting loudly that it's time for him to go make more noise than the rest of us.

He's been here for four years now and this season has been the first "disappointment", but even that needs qualifying. We have been awful since Christmas - Southampton at home was the pits. But even then, we've made it to Wembley and *probably* won't be joining Huddersfield back in the Championship after 2 seasons at the top table.

My position is this - I would be alarmed if we had another season next time like the second half of this one, but actually don't think we will. My reasoning is that this sort of attritional uninspiring stuff is reminiscent of when he first took over. I reckon he'll see the flaws, get through the season by playing within our limits, then look to address the issues over the summer. We've seen it before, last time with players he inherited admittedly.