[Albion] We're not streetwise enough.

[The Tactician]

Lots to unpack after the game, lots to be unhappy about re. the officiating. But I have rewatched the game and analysed it, and I want to focus on something else.

The performance today was first class. Brilliant chance creation, unlucky with the finishing (when you hit the post/crossbar I don't think you can say you're being especially wasteful), confident attacking play and a lot of assured defending - although there wasn't much to do. But there is a serious problem which is putting us at a huge disadvantage.

Jose Mourinho has made headlines following the spurs 'All or Nothing' documentary for his amusing comments about what it takes to win a football match.

https://youtu.be/i3xpiIjD6NI

After Brighton score to take a deserved lead, they continue to press forward. Nothing wrong with this. We have multiple players in their half as Solly March is dispossessed, and this the picture of the play at the time he loses the ball:


And between conceding the eventual freekick deep in our half, these are all the incidents where any Brighton player has to do the intelligent thing - and foul. A trip, a rugby tackle, a block... anything. The situation is clear, we are entirely exposed at the back. Make. The. Foul.





And now to the end of the game, which is contentious as to whether it was conducted in a lawful way etc. But regardless of this, the second they have an idea that Maupay may have extended his arm, what do the Manchester United players do? They surround the referee, they crowd him, they wave their arms and they insist the decision onto him. If they had not appealed, even if VAR had spotted the infraction, they may not have been minded to raise it as a clear and obvious error, especially as the on-field referee had already ended the game.

Unable to compete in terms of quality, they relied entirely on gamesmanship. They were awful, intelligent ****s. And they won the game because of that fact.

If we play as well as that, I don't want us to be deprived of the points and results we deserve because we are unwilling to 'play the game'. If we want to succeed, let's go all in. Let's do everything we can. Because the level of our performance, the quality of our play deserves it.

 

[Seasider78]

3 goals conceded this season already within 3min of us scoring at the other end tells you all you need to know about the need for a bit of game management.

Doing all the the hard work and then throwing it away

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Lots to unpack after the game, lots to be unhappy about re. the officiating. But I have rewatched the game and analysed it, and I want to focus on something else.


And now to the end of the game, which is contentious as to whether it was conducted in a lawful way etc. But regardless of this, the second they have an idea that Maupay may have extended his arm, what do the Manchester United players do? They surround the referee, they crowd him, they wave their arms and they insist the decision onto him. If they had not appealed, even if VAR had spotted the infraction, they may not have been minded to raise it as a clear and obvious error, especially as the on-field referee had already ended the game.


If we play as well as that, I don't want us to be deprived of the points and results we deserve because we are unwilling to 'play the game'. If we want to succeed, let's go all in. Let's do everything we can. Because the level of our performance, the quality of our play deserves it.

Please forgive the link, but it is against the rules for players to surround the referee, and Man Utd have been fined for it, just this year. They were hit with a massive fine.
If Brighton had done it, we’d be fined, too. I noticed Dunk carefully telling our players to keep back whilst he questioned the decision to award the penalty.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...players-surrounding-referee-Craig-Pawson.html

 

[martin tyler]

It’s a very young side. Average age today 25.2 which is 3rd youngest in the PL this season. They were outstanding today against a team that cost hundred of millions of pounds. They will learn and get better because of this experience
Interesting potter has named 3 of the 6 youngest sides so far this season in the premier league with our side v Newcastle at an average age of 24.4 The youngest. Lots to be excited about. This group could take us higher than we have ever been before as long as they learn from days like today.

 

[Peter Grummit]

Agree with the OP.

For the 1-1 equaliser, Maguire is all over Dunk, hands on his shoulders and pulling him back. Dunk should be running to the ref screaming for VAR, so they at least review it.

Sent from my SM-A105G using Tapatalk

 

[Baldseagull]

Lots to unpack after the game, lots to be unhappy about re. the officiating. But I have rewatched the game and analysed it, and I want to focus on something else.

The performance today was first class. Brilliant chance creation, unlucky with the finishing (when you hit the post/crossbar I don't think you can say you're being especially wasteful), confident attacking play and a lot of assured defending - although there wasn't much to do. But there is a serious problem which is putting us at a huge disadvantage.

Jose Mourinho has made headlines following the spurs 'All or Nothing' documentary for his amusing comments about what it takes to win a football match.

https://youtu.be/i3xpiIjD6NI

After Brighton score to take a deserved lead, they continue to press forward. Nothing wrong with this. We have multiple players in their half as Solly March is dispossessed, and this the picture of the play at the time he loses the ball:
View attachment 128807

And between conceding the eventual freekick deep in our half, these are all the incidents where any Brighton player has to do the intelligent thing - and foul. A trip, a rugby tackle, a block... anything. The situation is clear, we are entirely exposed at the back. Make. The. Foul.

View attachment 128809
View attachment 128810
View attachment 128808

And now to the end of the game, which is contentious as to whether it was conducted in a lawful way etc. But regardless of this, the second they have an idea that Maupay may have extended his arm, what do the Manchester United players do? They surround the referee, they crowd him, they wave their arms and they insist the decision onto him. If they had not appealed, even if VAR had spotted the infraction, they may not have been minded to raise it as a clear and obvious error, especially as the on-field referee had already ended the game.

Unable to compete in terms of quality, they relied entirely on gamesmanship. They were awful, intelligent ****s. And they won the game because of that fact.

If we play as well as that, I don't want us to be deprived of the points and results we deserve because we are unwilling to 'play the game'. If we want to succeed, let's go all in. Let's do everything we can. Because the level of our performance, the quality of our play deserves it.

I detest the haranguing of the referee that goes on, but sadly, you are correct, the sides that get in the refs ear get more of the decisions, and I have been saying it for years. It is one of those 0.5% advantages gained that can make the difference between winning and losing.

 

[timbha]

Good discussion.

On a more basic level I wonder if Duffy had been on the bench if we would have brought him on (for Maupay) to defend the last second corner.
Or Burn, or Veltman. Please don’t tell me we had already used 3 subs!!

 

[Icy Gull]

I am torn. We are not going to win titles or cups so not convinced we should become a bunch of shits on the field, I quite like our attitude to fair play

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So we play brilliantly, hit the woodwork numerous times, have numerous other shots and we lost because we’re not streetwise? I think we lost because we were a tad unlucky today. Carry on as we are, and it will be a very memorable season.

 

[The Tactician]

Please forgive the link, but it is against the rules for players to surround the referee, and Man Utd have been fined for it, just this year. They were hit with a massive fine.
If Brighton had done it, we’d be fined, too. I noticed Dunk carefully telling our players to keep back whilst he questioned the decision to award the penalty.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...players-surrounding-referee-Craig-Pawson.html

I detest the haranguing of the referee that goes on, but sadly, you are correct, the sides that get in the refs ear get more of the decisions, and I have been saying it for years. It is one of those 0.5% advantages gained that can make the difference between winning and losing.

Indeed, that's a very good point re the Manchester United fine. I also dislike players unnecessarily crowding/putting pressure on the referee.

But there are two points that are sad but true; football has always been a 'pay to win' and even a 'pay to play'. It costs money to win, and whether that's on superior players or fines for influencing the result of a game...the result is the same.

Secondly, with the instance that they were fined for...Manchester United got the decision in question overturned. The pressure they lumped on the VAR system was sufficient to influence the outcome, as I recall it being a contentious call. £20,000 to have goal gainst you chalked off...to some that is very good value.

I wholly agree the dynamic is unwanted, unsavoury. But as pointed out above, summed up entirely:

It is one of those 0.5% advantages gained that can make the difference between winning and losing.

 

[Jeremiah]

Good discussion.

On a more basic level I wonder if Duffy had been on the bench if we would have brought him on (for Maupay) to defend the last second corner.
Or Burn, or Veltman. Please don’t tell me we had already used 3 subs!!

A good point.

I think Dunk or Webster should be attacking that corner not Maupay who is 5ft ?

 

[The Tactician]

So we play brilliantly, hit the woodwork numerous times, have numerous other shots and we lost because we’re not streetwise? I think we lost because we were a tad unlucky today. Carry on as we are, and it will be a very memorable season.

We were unlucky, but the circumstances were indicative of a more widespread problem. We have struggled to take our chances, whether we are unlucky or wasteful. Now, we can either start scoring at the closer rate to which we are creating (that would be brilliant) or we must stop conceding as many goals. Because we’re getting bodies up the field (aiding our high chance creation), that subsequently means we are more open to counter attacks - like the two we conceded from today.
[tweet]1267837719788638208[/tweet]

You would expect statistically that we will eventually become more clinical, and we’ll get results going our way. But longer term, you have to eradicate being ‘mugged off’. I feel sorry for the players in a sense, I’m so proud of them, they’re playing so well, I desperately want them to get the rewards they deserve.

 

[vegster]

Please forgive the link, but it is against the rules for players to surround the referee, and Man Utd have been fined for it, just this year. They were hit with a massive fine.
If Brighton had done it, we’d be fined, too. I noticed Dunk carefully telling our players to keep back whilst he questioned the decision to award the penalty.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...players-surrounding-referee-Craig-Pawson.html

With respect TB, the " Massive Fine " that ManUre received was about 12 hours wages for Alexi Sanchez, money means faff all to them.

 

[vegster]

So we play brilliantly, hit the woodwork numerous times, have numerous other shots and we lost because we’re not streetwise? I think we lost because we were a tad unlucky today. Carry on as we are, and it will be a very memorable season.

I really hope so, if we keep hitting the woodwork and keep getting poor decisions we will slowly slide in to trouble though.

 

[Wardy's twin]

we aren't and if we want to stay in this league we need to tighten up on this.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

We were unlucky, but the circumstances were indicative of a more widespread problem. We have struggled to take our chances, whether we are unlucky or wasteful. Now, we can either start scoring at the closer rate to which we are creating (that would be brilliant) or we must stop conceding as many goals. Because we’re getting bodies up the field (aiding our high chance creation), that subsequently means we are more open to counter attacks - like the two we conceded from today.
[tweet]1267837719788638208[/tweet]

You would expect statistically that we will eventually become more clinical, and we’ll get results going our way. But longer term, you have to eradicate being ‘mugged off’. I feel sorry for the players in a sense, I’m so proud of them, they’re playing so well, I desperately want them to get the rewards they deserve.

Those tweets are from June 2nd. We’ve been a very different proposition since then, ie the restart.

You say we need to “eradicate being ‘mugged off’ - how many games has this happened in? Today and? I have a sense you’re simply reacting to today’s game as opposed to trying to address a trend.

 

[The Tactician]

Those tweets are from June 2nd. We’ve been a very different proposition since then, ie the restart.

You say we need to “eradicate being ‘mugged off’ - how many games has this happened in? Today and? I have a sense you’re simply reacting to today’s game as opposed to trying to address a trend.

Not at all. The statistics used are still very relevant, and I have more recent data too. With regards to being 'mugged off' there are two issues, one is simply not getting the deserved result, the other is the more specific problem within that, i.e inevitably conceding some goals on the counter while not scoring enough to justify underperforming in front of goal. For example, according to Infogol we had superior xG against Utd today, against Chelsea if you remove their penalty (contributing to 0.7 of their 1.38 xG, scoring 3 goals), even against Liverpool at home. Even anecdotally, did you not feel that we deserved more against both Chelsea and Utd this season? And the statistics re conceding counters last season remains relevant as it appears to be a similar story this year.

Last season we scored 39 goals, with an xG of 53.02.

All I mean to say is the players are out-creating, outplaying, and outworking their opponents. Yet conceding goals, and losing. Tactical fouling appears to be a viable method to mitigate this occurrence.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Not at all. The statistics used are still very relevant, and I have more recent data too. With regards to being 'mugged off' there are two issues, one is simply not getting the deserved result, the other is the more specific problem within that, i.e inevitably conceding some goals on the counter while not scoring enough to justify underperforming in front of goal. For example, according to Infogol we had superior xG against Utd today, against Chelsea if you remove their penalty (contributing to 0.7 of their 1.38 xG, scoring 3 goals), even against Liverpool at home. Even anecdotally, did you not feel that we deserved more against both Chelsea and Utd this season? And the statistics re conceding counters last season remains relevant as it appears to be a similar story this year.

Last season we scored 39 goals, with an xG of 53.02.

All I mean to say is the players are out-creating, outplaying, and outworking their opponents. Yet conceding goals, and losing. Tactical fouling appears to be a viable method to mitigate this occurrence.

No, I don’t think we deserved anything more from the Chelsea game. We were primarily beaten by a clanger from Alzate and a worldly from Reece James. Both are difficult, impossible, to legislate against.

Yes I do think we deserved more today and either slightly better finishing or a ref who’s can read a watch will have achieved this. We don’t need to start hacking down opponents in my opinion.

 

[Weststander]

Points made by pundits during and after the game, who did watch the match in full:

“Brighton are very easy to pick off on the counter” - said by Mick McCarthy (who thought we were by far the better team) and Matt Holland. “One mistake by Lamptey or White pushed up too far and opponents are in on goal”.

“Awful zonal marking by Brighton, why put Maupay on a player 6” taller? In that situation, always go man to man” ... David Connolly.

We can’t keep bleating unlucky. Personally I wish we could defend better in more games. Almost impossible to get results against mega spenders when you concede goals (plural).

 

[Thunder Bolt]

With respect TB, the " Massive Fine " that ManUre received was about 12 hours wages for Alexi Sanchez, money means faff all to them.

Respect is what Man Utd players don’t show officials. That’s not streetwise, that’s cheating. Rich clubs can afford to cheat.
Referees need to start being consistent but I won’t hold my breath.