[Misc] We'll never stop the supply of drugs, so how do we reduce the demand?

[The Clamp]

What is embarrassing is actually believing you live in a totally different world than the rest of the developed world.

But ok, to make you happy I will from now on make exceptions for Brighton any time I comment on the development of society and humanity. So to rephrase the paragraph that led us into Brighton:

"When you can dance naked on a square without feeling any shame or guilt (except in Brighton, where no one feels any shame or guilt) and without worrying about the law (except in Brighton where there is no law) and your status (except in Brighton where not one single human cares about status) and people filming you and whatever (except in Brighton because no one would film you if you act like an oddball), then you can live a life without drugs (except in Brighton because everyone needs drugs no matter the situation). But we haven't moved in that direction (except in Brighton where liberty is thriving, social constructions do not exist and there are no laws) in a long time. We're just accumulating things that we should be ashamed etc about (except in Brighton because the influence from media/celebrities/trends/other people does not exist in Brighton). The relief from these things stopping us from being natural humans is to take drugs and lose a little of all that care and control (except in Brighton where no one has any worries or feel they have to control their urges)."

Better?

As I say. You don’t know Brighton.

As for the naked dancing? Yep, it happens. Along with naked bike riding and our nudist beach.

Of course their are laws and laws are followed. Except when they’re not ;-)

You should visit, genuinely. I think it would open your eyes. I’m not sure what view of the world someone has when they live, as you have happily described “living off pizza and smoking weed all day” but I guarantee you, you’d like it better if you stepped into the world and experienced it for yourself.

You’d love Brighton and I reckon Brighton would love you. Genuinely.

 

[Swansman]

I mean find a way to not become extinct. Someone a few years ago posted something on here along the lines of 'humans are destroying the planet so we all need to die'. I think he got a perma ban for Covid denial.

Humans are amazing. I'm very pleased to be one. There is no other life form that has what we have. We will find 'a way' because it is inevitable. It's what we do.

(That said it is quite possible some nutter could blow it all to shit - nuclear weapons, biologics..... - which is why I like to speak up. Speaking up probably does nothing but I feel it is better than not speaking up. If I have changed the attitude of one person in the last 50 years, that will do me.).

Anyway....you are unusual for your level of engagement, given who/where/what you are, and I consider that impressive. Encouraging.

Ok, I doubt we'll find a way for homo sapiens not to get extinct. The homo genus itself, maybe.

I disagree strongly about the brilliance of humans, but you already know that. It is a matter of opinion and preference. Some think we move in a "good" direction, some think we move in a "bad" direction. As for us "finding a way", in terms of survival, we're - again - a comparatively young species. There is a good chance that the greatest challenges are not behind us, and it is difficult to predict the outcome if we would encounter scenario (and there are plenty of those) with the potential to make the species extinct. I mean if some big ****ing comet collides with earth wiping out every living thing, all that "brilliance" will be pretty meaningless (except in Brighton, sorry [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION]). And there's a lot less dramatic scenarios that I don't share your confidence about.

 

[Swansman]

As I say. You don’t know Brighton.

As for the naked dancing? Yep, it happens. Along with naked bike riding and our nudist beach.

Of course their are laws and laws are followed. Except when they’re not ;-)

You should visit, genuinely. I think it would open your eyes. I’m not sure what view of the world someone has when they live, as you have happily described “living off pizza and smoking weed all day” but I guarantee you, you’d like it better if you stepped into the world and experienced it for yourself.

You’d love Brighton and I reckon Brighton would love you. Genuinely.

I've seen enough of the world to reaching the point where if some anthropologist had a lecture mentioning some general developments in human society and human behaviour, I would not slap myself on the chest like some hungry sea lion while denying that anything affecting the rest of the world could possibly have any impact on the people living in my home town. But thank your for your concerns, and you're probably right that I would like Brighton as a city.

 

[The Clamp]

I've seen enough of the world to reaching the point where if some anthropologist had a lecture mentioning some general developments in human society and human behaviour, I would not slap myself on the chest like some hungry sea lion while denying that anything affecting the rest of the world could possibly have any impact on the people living in my home town. But thank your for your concerns, and you're probably right that I would like Brighton as a city.

Of course things that affect the world also affect Brighton. Of course there are people who work in offices and don’t get involved so much in the “Brighton bubble” but it really is a town like very few others.

I’d say Bristol is comparable. But yeah, the term “Brighton bubble” exists for a reason.

I moved out West as I got a bit older because the draw of it all got a bit exhausting. There’s always a party, always someone to go to the pub with, always someone with a day off the next day.

Sunday Funday, Tuaca, Pavillion gardens, the Southover comedown pub crawl, The Bottoms Rest hangover roast, kill or cure at Deadwax, getting on it, getting over it…. like other cities and then some.

I’m too long in the tooth do be doing any of it now the odd Sunday beer session here and there keeps a toe in the water. You’re far more likely to find us strolling on the Downs and getting a roast somewhere than getting splashy in town these days, we leave that to the younglings but yeah, it’s special and I like to think I gave it a good spin in my time.

I’m glad I recognised when the party was over though, some don’t and it’s not pretty.

 

[Swansman]

because you've lept from "using drugs to deal with change of human culture" to addiction. addition is a consequence of peoples managing those drugs and their reactions to them. my point was humans seek out chemical substances that change mood or perception, that this is not a consequence of dealing with the modern world. the hippy movement demostrates this, drop out of modern world and all the stresses and strains, and straight on to the pot and acid.

Yes, many humans do seek out those things, but what is causing it to reach problematic levels? I think a lot of aspects of modern society amplify the desire to use drugs in unsustainable ways, as a kind of boost or self-medication, rather than maintaining usage at a controllable level.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Ok, I doubt we'll find a way for homo sapiens not to get extinct. The homo genus itself, maybe.

I disagree strongly about the brilliance of humans, but you already know that. It is a matter of opinion and preference. Some think we move in a "good" direction, some think we move in a "bad" direction. As for us "finding a way", in terms of survival, we're - again - a comparatively young species. There is a good chance that the greatest challenges are not behind us, and it is difficult to predict the outcome if we would encounter scenario (and there are plenty of those) with the potential to make the species extinct. I mean if some big ****ing comet collides with earth wiping out every living thing, all that "brilliance" will be pretty meaningless (except in Brighton, sorry [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION]). And there's a lot less dramatic scenarios that I don't share your confidence about.

Indeed.

The elephant (OK, dinosaur) in the room is the dinosaur - it may have been thick as shit, but its longevity makes our own puny step into the sun look like a blink of the eye....so no time yet to get too cocky. Unfortunately in my cse it may be too late. But....in the long run....we (individuals) are all dead.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Yes, many humans do seek out those things, but what is causing it to reach problematic levels? I think a lot of aspects of modern society amplify the desire to use drugs in unsustainable ways, as a kind of boost or self-medication, rather than maintaining usage at a controllable level.

Indeed. Many, myself sometimes, seem to now lack the resilience to get on ok just accepting things as they are.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Decriminalise ALL drugs, sell weed like alcohol and tax it which will make billions and use that money to fund the health services for addicts. Plus use it to invest in other areas of infrastructure. It is everywhere though, cocaine especially. I'd say most of my circle all participate in drugs. I'd rather be around people loved up than pissed up.

 

[clapham_gull]

Those Marks and Spencers cocktails for a couple of quid are definitely the new "drug" of choice.

I was at Clapham Junction station at the weekend, travelling down south and the station was full of 20 somethings I think going to some Rugby thing all dressed in fancy dress.

Everybody (and I mean everybody) were pre-fuelling on M & S cocktails at 11:30.

They must be making a mint.

 

[Baldseagull]

People like to alter their reality, or escape it for a while. If you have a shit reality, you will likely get addicted to your escape. Reduce the numbers of people with shit lives, and legalise most non-opioids, anyone with an opioid addiction should get a supervised hits for free.

 

[sydney]

It's not a media thing tbh. the campaign is literally named war on drugs, started by Richard Nixon.

yeah , with bulk heroin being brought in from vietnam in soldiers body bags , the drug trade comes with corrupt governments , they need a sizeable addict population , it creates a soft underbelly in many societies , only way to stop it is with zero tolerance coupled with corporal punishment see China , Singapore etc. not a junky in sight , the biggest fallacy going is that confiscated drugs are destroyed , they aren't , why would they be when there are legal operations growing exactly the same product , sanctioned by authorities , marijuana is a prime example , demonised for decades , now every man and his dog with a bit of land is applying for growers licences. Also major research programmes under way with psilocybin and dmt to be used in treating palliative and ptsd sufferers.....it's alright for them to dabble , not us though for us it's illegal.

 

[El Presidente]

I disagree strongly about the brilliance of humans.

What nonsense, we invented Marmite and Ker-Plunk.

 

[sydney]

What nonsense, we invented Marmite and Ker-Plunk.

don't forget Lego , Buckaroo and Roll Mopps.

 

[happypig]

At the other end of the spectrum, what about a bit of care? I don't think we should have anyone living on the street. Weren't rough sleepers taken into shelter during early Covid? They are certainly back on the street now. We should put and end to it. It would cost 0.001% of the price of the jiggery pokery and spaffing of cash going on in the wider world of 'government spending'. Support and help.

When I was a magistrate we dealt with a lot of addicts (to both legal and illegal substances) and I had to read a lot of pre-sentence probation reports. These would give a "potted history" of the offender's background. In my experience housing (or, more precisely, the lack of) and bereavement were the most common factors.

A majority of these people can be helped to get control of the addiction but, due to the nature of addiction, there are often setbacks and sometimes multiple interventions are needed.

Unfortunately when a lot of people see rough sleepers, beggars, street drinkers and the like, they say "Something should be done about this lot" they don't mean "I want some of my taxes to help them".

 

[BBassic]

Personally think any answer to the question of "how do we as a society tackle addiction" has to begin with - a comprehensive review of funding for mental health care.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I think the answer is to do with better education.

Not just putting the fear of god in to kids at school, but properly talking through the options and potential consequences

 

[Deleted member 2719]

In terms of reducing demand, back in my days we only had:



has education moved on a bit for youngsters nowadays?

It worked for me.

Never been interested in the stuff.

What goes up must go down.


Perhaps my love for sporting adrenalin saved me, perhaps, my willpower stopped me,
Or perhaps my Tory up bringing saved me.

 

[birthofanorange]

It worked for me.

Never been interested in the stuff.

What goes up must go down.


Perhaps my love for sporting adrenalin saved me, perhaps, my willpower stopped me,
Or perhaps my Tory up bringing saved me.

Maybe it was fear of the unknown, perhaps foreign things entering your body?

 

[herecomesaregular]

When I was a magistrate we dealt with a lot of addicts (to both legal and illegal substances) and I had to read a lot of pre-sentence probation reports. These would give a "potted history" of the offender's background. In my experience housing (or, more precisely, the lack of) and bereavement were the most common factors.

A majority of these people can be helped to get control of the addiction but, due to the nature of addiction, there are often setbacks and sometimes multiple interventions are needed.

Unfortunately when a lot of people see rough sleepers, beggars, street drinkers and the like, they say "Something should be done about this lot" they don't mean "I want some of my taxes to help them".

We really should pay higher taxes imo specifically ear marked for child and adult social services.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Maybe it was fear of the unknown, perhaps foreign things entering your body?

Are you chatting me up