[Football] We only want a point against the Czech Republic

[Brovion]

short memories indeed, they must have completely erased previous managers from their memories, we were a complete joke under Capello, at least we don't go to tournaments and embarrass ourselves, went out to Iceland last time. Some fans just dislike Southgate irrespective of results, if we do well they say we got an easy route, they clearly have an agenda

It's also long memories! I go back to Alf Ramsey and 1966. In retrospect the period between 1966 and 1970 was England's golden era: World Champions, 3rd in Europe, and then an extremely credible quarter-final appearance in 1970. After that .... well we can all list the high spots but they've been more than outweighed by the tournaments where we've stunk the place out - that's when we've qualified of course, which when Finals contained fewer teams wasn't always a given.

It's nothing to do with Southgate himself, it's that 'same old England' feeling I hate when we seemed perhaps to have put the really shit years behind us. Anyway, hopefully we'll put on a show of scintillating, fearless football tonight (as we've already qualified), and then you can bounce this thread saying "I told you not to panic!"

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

Any idea what England’s route might look like if we finish 3rd? Including dates if possible!

 

[vagabond]

Yep. He’s done really well. Not the best manager but has surprised many. I don’t get why people feel the need to have the knives out for him tbh - as soon as there’s any ‘bad’ result - which in this case was a draw! Short memories I feel.

It’s England Sheebo innit. It’s not just Southgate.

Whoever’s in charge, if England have a bad result there’s always an inquest. It’s a huge job. Just how it is.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Any idea what England’s route might look like if we finish 3rd? Including dates if possible!

It looks like the 3rd place teams in B & C at present will get knocked out. If that's the case England in 3rd (D3) would play the winner of Group E. (29 Jun 20.00).

However that would change if either B & C 3rd place teams do qualify. As an example, if Ukraine on 3pts -1gd got through at the expense of 3rd in E, then England would play the winner of Group C i.e. Netherlands (Sun 27 Jun 17.00).

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/soccer/news/euro-2021-how-best-third-3rd-place-teams-advance-groups/6ce5esvedrun17nh2ghj0ion8

 

[SAC]

Kane has produced little so far, I'd make him take corners this evening although my hope is that he will peak in the knock out stages. Him playing well would make all the difference.

 

[Mellotron]

Walker and Maguire in for today, apparently. Also Chilwell was set to start, still waiting to hear from PHE whether he/Mount can play or not.

 

[Randy McNob]

The easy route thing in the last World Cup is bang on. When Belgium beats us in the group stages our odds shortened to win it as if to prove the point. We then stumbled past Columbia and beat a functional Swedish side before losing to Croatia who were no world beaters themselves. We could and should have won that game but were done by in game changes we didn't react to as well as basic tactics of Walker being targeted in the air as he was weak (and not killing them off when we should have) .

I'd also argue he has a pool of players at his disposal that the likes of Graham Taylor could only dream of yet we looked very much like a team with Carlton Palmer in midfield on Friday. We have some genuine talent.

GS has done a lot right with the spirit of the squad and seems like a good bloke with it which I'm sure counts for a lot with the players. The problem is that tactically he or his coaches react too slowly or not at all if things don't go to plan and he currently has a reliance on players that are injured or out of form. We have a good squad and home advantage for most of it but whose betting on us getting past the last 8 or even 16? I'm not. I hope we come good and in a one game knock out tournament we may yet come good or get lucky but I certainly don't expect it.

stumbling past Colombia is still better than losing to Iceland

Yes, we have talented young players but Erikson had the golden generation and only managed a quarter final

As someone else said lets judge this tournament afterwards, people with minds made up mid-way through the tournament when we are still very much in it, again, clearly have an agenda

 

[Bodian]

Any idea what England’s route might look like if we finish 3rd? Including dates if possible!

I tried working it out - then decided that as the only way we could finish third is if we lose tonight, and Scotland beat Croatia by enough goals to turn round the goal difference and have more goals then us if level on GD (ie: we lose 1-0, they win 3-0, or we lose 2-0 and they win 2-0) there was such a small chance of it happening that I couldn't be bothered!

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I tried working it out - then decided that as the only way we could finish third is if we lose tonight, and Scotland beat Croatia by enough goals to turn round the goal difference and have more goals then us if level on GD (ie: we lose 1-0, they win 3-0, or we lose 2-0 and they win 2-0) there was such a small chance of it happening that I couldn't be bothered!

If we lose 1-0 tonight and Scotland won by 2 goals they’d finish 2nd on goals scored.

But you’ve also forgotten Croatia could beat Scotland and finish 2nd if we lose. If we lost 1-0 then Croatia would only need a 1-0 win to finish 2nd.

 

[Bodian]

If we lose 1-0 tonight and Scotland won by 2 goals they’d finish 2nd on goals scored.

But you’ve also forgotten Croatia could beat Scotland and finish 2nd if we lose. If we lost 1-0 then Croatia would only need a 1-0 win to finish 2nd.

First point: Oh yes - of course, forgotten we'd scored so few! But Croatia can't overtake us whatever happens, because the first decider is the scores between the two teams.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

First point: Oh yes - of course, forgotten we'd scored so few! But Croatia can't overtake us whatever happens, because the first decider is the scores between the two teams.

Oh yeah.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

I'm pretty sure that Gareth being the cautious sort he is will be going all out for a draw tonight. Prepare yourself for another 90 minutes of total boredom with two holding midfielders, no pace or direct play and Kane attempting to run around in treacle.

 

[Uter]

That’s actually a brilliant comparison.

- great statesman
- great dealing with politics, public statements
- fantastic with young players
- prior to the role hasn’t really proved himself as a manager
- criticised for big game management and tactically questionable

But to be fair I still go by results. Southgate for all his flaws got us to the World Cup semi’s, I don’t care about how easy our route was. We’ve been eliminated by Iceland before ffs.

And currently played shocking, but 4pts and yet to concede a goal. I will judge Southgate and England’s progression once they’re eliminated from the tournament.

The "they only did well because they had an easy route" argument is often put forward by those who have an antipathy towards the team in question and want to discredit any achievement.

Look closely at most previous finals and you find plenty of cases of teams that progressed to finals and semi-finals in less than convincing fashion against seemingly mediocre opposition. It's just the nature of tournament football.

 

[Jam The Man]

First point: Oh yes - of course, forgotten we'd scored so few! But Croatia can't overtake us whatever happens, because the first decider is the scores between the two teams.

Deleted post. Apologies

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I'm pretty sure that Gareth being the cautious sort he is will be going all out for a draw tonight. Prepare yourself for another 90 minutes of total boredom with two holding midfielders, no pace or direct play and Kane attempting to run around in treacle.

We're through, really there is no reason not to set up with a bit of adventure and freedom and try to get a bit or belief and momentum. However I fear you are probably correct.

 

[gazingdown]

I'm pretty sure that Gareth being the cautious sort he is will be going all out for a draw tonight. Prepare yourself for another 90 minutes of total boredom with two holding midfielders, no pace or direct play and Kane attempting to run around in treacle.

Given we are through regardless, you would hope GS would grow a pair and play a lot more attacking minded, and also put out the players that would make that happen (White, Sancho, Sako, CL etc.).

Not holding my breath though...

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

If he doesn’t take a more open approach it tells us that he probably is thinking that finishing second is more favourable.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

We're through, really there is no reason not to set up with a bit of adventure and freedom and try to get a bit or belief and momentum. However I fear you are probably correct.

Given we are through regardless, you would hope GS would grow a pair and play a lot more attacking minded, and also put out the players that would make that happen (White, Sancho, Sako, CL etc.).

Not holding my breath though...

He'll want second place though won't he to supposedly get an easier draw in the next round so I'm pretty sure he will be cautious.

Ironically though, the way we play I think we might be better off playing France, Portugal or Germany in the next round rather than a lesser side as Southgate has basically spent the past three years working on a way to beat the better nations.

Ultimately, whatever happens tonight I'm pretty sure we will end up going out on penalties to Portugal in the next round.

 

[Hamilton]

The result tonight is immaterial.

In this instance, I agree with people like [MENTION=19]Icy Gull[/MENTION] who have said it is the performance that matters. It's time to tell the players to go out there, take risks, be as creative as they want, and see what they can make happen.

If we are going to go far in this competition then we have to be entertaining, creative, committed and expert on that pitch. Tonight we should see if we have what it takes to be the best.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

stumbling past Colombia is still better than losing to Iceland

Yes, we have talented young players but Erikson had the golden generation and only managed a quarter final

As someone else said lets judge this tournament afterwards, people with minds made up mid-way through the tournament when we are still very much in it, again, clearly have an agenda

We could - should - have won Euro 2004 if Rooney hadn't got injured or Alan Shearer had jumped off the bench to replace him when he did (he retired too early).

I've no agenda against Southgate. I hope we win the thing and go as far as possible. I just can't get my head around some of his decisions. It's more important he is right than I am.