[Albion] We are where we should be. Where do the Potter haters think we should be in the league?

[Not Andy Naylor]

I'm beginning to wonder whether the issue is not where fans/Potter-haters think we should be, but a mismatch between what Potter and the players are thinking and reality.

When Potter said he thought fans had unrealistic expectations of who we should be beating, he seemed to have misjudged the fanbase entirely - most supporters I know never expect us to beat anybody and are always worried about us losing.

And today in the Argus he's saying that the players shouldn't think 'We're too good for this [relegation battle]' - while we all appear to think that most of them aren't good enough!

 

[A1X]

The problem is not just where we are in the league, it's the manner in which we've been playing. Let's be honest, we were wretched on Sunday. Awful the previous Monday. And utterly dismal against West Brom and Burnley. Oh sure, we played Man Utd off the pitch a few weeks ago. How many points did we get for that again? Meanwhile, West Brom didn't play Man City off the park last night and got more points from that game than we did in that Man Utd game.

I'd like to see us play Fulham and Sheffield United off the pitch in the next few days. Do I see us doing so? Not a chance in my opinion. We look about as fragile mentally as a display of delicate glass bowls in an earthquake zone, and the heads drop far too easily.

 

[A1X]

When Potter said he thought fans had unrealistic expectations of who we should be beating, he seemed to have misjudged the fanbase entirely - most supporters I know never expect us to beat anybody and are always worried about us losing.

I've still not forgiven him for his attacks on us TBH. A situation made 10x worse by the fact immediately after this we put up that horror show performance against Burnley, which was presumably another team we were wrong to expect the team to have a chance against.

 

[Beanstalk]

The problem is not just where we are in the league, it's the manner in which we've been playing. Let's be honest, we were wretched on Sunday. Awful the previous Monday. And utterly dismal against West Brom and Burnley. Oh sure, we played Man Utd off the pitch a few weeks ago. How many points did we get for that again? Meanwhile, West Brom didn't play Man City off the park last night and got more points from that game than we did in that Man Utd game.

I'd like to see us play Fulham and Sheffield United off the pitch in the next few days. Do I see us doing so? Not a chance in my opinion. We look about as fragile mentally as a display of delicate glass bowls in an earthquake zone, and the heads drop far too easily.

In part I agree with this, though perhaps I'm not as down on GP. I think we'll get enough points from the next 2 to keep everyone just about happy (3/4) but not enough to really cut the gap with those above us. I really think we, stylistically, look like a very lightweight version of a top team. Play nice passing football but aren't quite good enough to finish chances or defend set pieces for 90 mins. Teams around us look comfortable without possession and we don't look like we have the quality to break them down. At the end of the day, if we should be around 16th, it's got to be about results - in that position we are in a relegation battle.

I also think the continual, "we are happy with the performances, but we'd like the points tally to reflect that" after we have dropped points doesn't helps at all. I'd really have liked him to be a bit more annoyed in his comments than "a little bit disappointed at our second half performance" and "it's hard in the Premier League" after Southampton. We went from being the better team to being dominated in that second half. I'm not saying he should be going mental (a la CH), but I wouldn't mind something a little bit more interesting from him.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I find it odd that posters want to see our manager "show some passion", "be a bit more angry"

Why?

The bloke has got degrees in Leadership/Emotional intelligence.
He's made no bones about the fact that he believes this helps him get the best out of players.
Why do fans feel that his lack of passion and anger, when interviewed by the Press, indicate that he isn't capable of inspiring/leading the team?

Would you really feel happier if our manager was coming out with "Unacceptable performance" "I'm furious with the levels hit by the players" ?

 

[rippleman]

I find it odd that posters want to see our manager "show some passion", "be a bit more angry"

Why?

The bloke has got degrees in Leadership/Emotional intelligence.
He's made no bones about the fact that he believes this helps him get the best out of players.
Why do fans feel that his lack of passion and anger, when interviewed by the Press, indicate that he isn't capable of inspiring/leading the team?

Would you really feel happier if our manager was coming out with "Unacceptable performance" "I'm furious with the levels hit by the players" ?

But despite all his qualifications and undoubted attributes we are steadily getting worse.

If you can set aside your "I must defend anything and everything the club does" attitude are you really seeing him getting "the best out of players" this season? Solly maybe. Anybody else?

I don't know precisely why but he is making some our players worse (eg Dunk). Whether the players don't like him, whether it is the constant changes in personnel and / or formation or tactics, who knows. I can't tell him what is going wrong but something certainly is.

I'm not sure that I would want him to get angry but I would like to see him demonstrate some passion on the touchline and in his interviews.

 

[SEWDONIM]

"Potter haters" and often a really adolescent tone in posts, I'm not surprised.

But in terms of points?

If we want to stay up, we need to be beating teams around us. Burnley and West Brom at home as examples; so +4 points at least (not including GD, that's speculative), so on 14 points would be a fair assessment of where we should be at. Our home form is terrible.

So based on the above, I feel we should be on 14 points. I cannot really blame Potter for Man United and Southampton, that as an example of how appalling English refereeing is right now. We played well in those two games and deserved a minimum of a point but should not be used to bash Potter.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

But despite all his qualifications and undoubted attributes we are steadily getting worse.

If you can set aside your "I must defend anything and everything the club does" attitude are you really seeing him getting "the best out of players" this season? Solly maybe. Anybody else?

I don't know precisely why but he is making some our players worse (eg Dunk). Whether the players don't like him, whether it is the constant changes in personnel and / or formation or tactics, who knows. I can't tell him what is going wrong but something certainly is.

I'm not sure that I would want him to get angry but I would like to see him demonstrate some passion on the touchline and in his interviews.

It's not about "defending anything the club does" nor is it about "bedwetters"
Football fans of all persuasions can largely be drawn into optimists and pessimists.
We are currently on a run of WDLL - against 4 top half teams. - You see the LL and I see the 4 points.
Different perspectives that's all

When it comes to getting the best out of our players your statement of "Solly maybe" is unfair.

Lamptey/Veltman/Solly/Bissouma /White have consistently been top drawer.
Maupay/Alzate/Trossard started well but have faded lately.
Gross/Lallana/Welbeck - have had several games where they have been called out for strong performances.

Dunk/Ryan/Burn don't seem to be the same players they were
Webster is struggling with being forced to play the left centre-back role

These types of ranges in form happen to all players at all clubs.

It is also worth remembering what a radical overhaul we are seeing this season.
Wingbacks and 3 at the back was an occasional shift we made within games, not the preferred option.
Personally I think we are struggling at the back with this formation, exposing previously unseen weaknesses in Dunk's game and forcing Webster into the left side CM role.
This in turn is exposing (known) weaknesses in Ryan's game.

Potter, believes the players will improve, with more experience playing this way (there's enough evidence to suggest they can).
Long term he believes this is the right track and losing 2 games to 4th and 6th in the league isn't going to force a rethink.

Two more losses and yeah I will start agreeing that we are on a worryingly poor run, but not before.

 

[SittingbourneSeagull]

Well, as per my first post, that all depends on this week doesn't it? If we go and get 6 points then things will look a lot rosier and we'll be closer to where we should be based on our wage bill. If we don't grab any points and Leeds pick up a likely three points at home to Newcastle, we're suddenly 7 points shy of lower mid-table, fighting Arsenal for the most out of form team award, and looking at another season of desperately keeping our heads above water.

For the record, I'm very much of the belief that it will "come good" under Potter, I just feel we are underachieving and the style is papering over a lot of the issues that existed in Hughton's final season (not clinical enough, lack of consistency in our home/away performances, capitulating when we're under pressure).

The trouble is as the weeks pass it feels like the players are either out of form or have lost belief in the system/style of play. I guess thats bound to happen when you don't beat teams despite outplaying them.
We seem to want to walk the ball into the net, but most worrying is the solid defence that we have built our Premier League survival on over the past few seasons has evaporated.

Dunk is out of form, as is Webster. Burn should only be considered as a back up centre half and not be anywhere near left back/left wing back.

Ryan needs the pressure taking off of him as well.

I would go with Lamptey, White, Veltman, Dunk and March tonight. We also need one of the midfield players to hold as a defensive midfield player. I'd be tempted to replace Ryan, but its a pressure match and I'm not sure thats fair to a young keeper.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

The trouble is as the weeks pass it feels like the players are either out of form or have lost belief in the system/style of play. I guess thats bound to happen when you don't beat teams despite outplaying them.
We seem to want to walk the ball into the net, but most worrying is the solid defence that we have built our Premier League survival on over the past few seasons has evaporated.

Dunk is out of form, as is Webster. Burn should only be considered as a back up centre half and not be anywhere near left back/left wing back.

Ryan needs the pressure taking off of him as well.

I would go with Lamptey, White, Veltman, Dunk and March tonight. We also need one of the midfield players to hold as a defensive midfield player. I'd be tempted to replace Ryan, but its a pressure match and I'm not sure thats fair to a young keeper.

Every match is a pressure match until we're 10 points clear with three to play.

I've made this point before, but I can't understand what we thought we were doing bringing Veltman in, however little he cost, when our greatest need if Potter wanted to play three at the back was a better left-sided defender. Now we have three players (White, Veltman and Webster) whose best position is on the right side of central defence and Dunk, Burn and Bernardo for the left. That's a considerable talent imbalance. So we have to play White and Webster out of position just to fit them in because they and Veltman all have to play. Maybe Dunk should play on the left of the back three and let two of the others play right and mid - but wait, Dunk is the captain so should probably be in the middle. Is that how it works? I hope not.

Those old enough will remember that we lost the Cup Final replay with left-footed Steve Gatting at right back who had never played there in his life before. Because Steve Foster was back and had to play, and Gary Stevens, the best available right back, had to play in central defence because he looked so good there in the first game and didn't want to play full back. And now we're playing square pegs in round holes again for some reason best known to Graham Potter.

 

[Badger Boy]

Personally, I think the moment a manager starts playing players out of position or playing a system which isn't benefitting the team to accommodate individuals is when he starts to lose the dressing room. How is Alzate feeling right now? And Propper? Sanchez came in, did well and hasn't even made the bench afterwards. What does Steele think of that? Bernardo has no chance of playing. I can't imagine the dressing room is an overly happy place at the moment, and I can imagine there are plenty of players wavering in their support of Potterball.