[Football] We are no better than last season at this point FACT

[One Teddy Maybank]

Mr Bloom wanted GPott.

Any delay in changing the manager would have resulted in losing Potter, possibly forever.

A lot of the noise being needlessly repeated, ad nauseum, keeps losing sight of that simple fact.

Yes, but this is a discussion.
But can’t deny that is true.


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[One Teddy Maybank]

Sorry but fear of conceding to me means ultra defensive. It has been said that there was a bust up at training due to fact that the training was all about defensive play, we had an offensive plan at the start of the season, I wonder what happened to that.

Fair enough, I don’t agree (about the ultra defensive).


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[GT49er]

Agree with most of your post.....BUT................

2. Alzate and Connelly were here last year. To say they weren't at his disposal is disingenuous. We haven't got them in from Inter Milan and Real Madrid. They were farmed out to Luton and Swindon.

They were also a year younger and less developed - and more to the point, they were mostly injured.

BTW, I don't actually think CH would have blooded them in the PL - but he also didn't have Trossard, Maupay, Webster and Mooy at his disposal.
Hughton was good - I was glad we had him. Potter is good - I'm glad we've got him - so not in any way taking sides, OK.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

I will regret engaging with [MENTION=33329]Jolly Red Giant[/MENTION] but having read the last few pages.

And I have to go through this again - jeez

1. You continue to refer in this thread to shoestring budgets that Hughton had to work with. That is clearly bollocks. He was backed by the owners. CH also said the squad was full this time last year. Hardly the words of someone who wanted more backing

https://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/16...soar-past-100m-spent-on-premier-league-deals/

2. Alzate and Connelly were here last year. To say they weren't at his disposal is disingenuous. We haven't got them in from Inter Milan and Real Madrid. They were farmed out to Luton and Swindon.

3.How do you believe Hughton kept us up against the odds? At no point last year were we over 50% to go down with the bookmakers (and were as low as 4% in Jan 2019) . I believe without checking our wage bill was 17th. Keeping us up was par.

For the record, I believe CH largely did a fantastic job for us until about this time last year when the wheels fell off. The transformation of how we play in the short time GP has been here has been remarkable. Bringing through Alzate and Connelly whilst potting off Andone and Locadia could have cost him his job but he clearly has an eye for a player good or bad. He WILL end up at a top 6 club at some point. To suggest we'd have chucked in the youth and be playing this expansive if CH was still here ignores the evidence of the past 2 years. If in doubt we largely went back to the Championship team.

1. When you get promoted you have to buy players - and it is a lot harder to get players to join a promoted club than a club that is established in the PL. This season Villa spent more than £100million - last season Fulham spent more than £120million - Wolves spent £100million last season and another £90million this season. More importantly - Birghton's budget for players salaries was 18th in the PL - 11 of the Southampton players (who finished with 3 points more than Brighton last season) were paid more than the highest paid player at Brighton last season - including 2 who were on double the wages. Yes Brighton spent money - but it was still a bottom 3 budget and borderline players that Hughton had to work with. This season Brighton broke their transfer record 3 times - and effectively signed a fourth player who would also have broken the record on loan - and this was building on top of those who had been brought in the previous two seasons. It takes time to build a PL squad.

2. Alzate and Connolly were both injured for months - yet people on here keep claiming that Hughton should have played them. They are a year older and a year more mature and are contributing (and long may it continue).

3. The odds of a promoted team being relegated in the first two seasons after promotion are huge - most go back down - Norwich and Villa could go straight back down this year - Last year Huddersfield went down in their second season along with Cardiff and Fulham who had just been promoted - the year before Hull and Middlesbrough went straight back down. You have a 2/3 chance of going back down in the first two seasons. Keeping a team up for two seasons - particularly with the budget Brighton had - was a remarkable achievement - and people should acknowledge it.

4. Potter has done well - but it is a major question whether he could have kept Brighton up for the last two seasons with the style of football he plays and the players that Hughton had at his disposal. As for spotting a good player - Potter intended sending Connolly out on loan until David Weir persuaded him not to, after seeing Connolly playing for Ireland in the underage tournament in Toulon in June. Hughton has been highly praising of Connolly this season - and there is no reason to think he would not have played him. We can disagree on this point - but neither of us can know for definite what would have happened. Hughton has used (and purchased) young players in the past when they were good enough and ready to play. Would the team be playing the expansive football like Potter if Hughton was the manager - unlikely - but it would also be better organised defensively - and you need to do the job at both ends of the pitch.

Hughton had a job - keep the team in the PL - he succeeded in that. The club's hierarchy chose to go in a different direction - and that is their choice - and it has worked out very well so far - but that does not in any way diminish what Hughton achieved at Brighton over the previous 4 years. As for Potter - we have no idea where he will end up - you claim he 'WILL' end up with a top 6 club - based on 20 games and 6 wins in the PL - that claim is a bit of a stretch and it will take a lot more time and success in the PL before he is mentioned as a possible candidate for any of those jobs. I hope he does - every manager who puts his reputation on the line deserves success - and Hughton has done that repeatedly and deserves to have his achievements acknowledged and respected. After that - the football this season has been entertaining and people should enjoy the ride instead of repeatedly feeling that they must make comparisons.

 

[theboybilly]

WHU and Fulham away put paid to it

We were told that the team were going to practice a more pressing game last season and that it had been part of the pre-season training in Austria. I was looking forward to it from day 1 of the 18/19 season but we were dismantled at Watford on the very first outing. I don't remember any 'pressing game' of note all season although the first half at Fulham may have come close when we were actually much the better side (I can't quite believe I just wrote that) Most of last season we were living off points gained from out of sorts opposition. I still don't quite understand how we managed to survive

 

[Stat Brother]

Yes, but this is a discussion.
But can’t deny that is true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Somewhat tedious though, don't you think?

The club wanted Potter.
The club had a narrow window to get him.
Mr Hughton probably had an insurmountable challenge to keep his job.
Mr Hughton fell short by just about every metric, with plenty of blame to spread around.
The club were prepared to spend many millions of pounds to get GPott.
The club got Mr Potter.



Drops mic.
Scratches goolies.
Exits stage left.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And I have to go through this again - jeez



1. When you get promoted you have to buy players - and it is a lot harder to get players to join a promoted club than a club that is established in the PL. This season Villa spent more than £100million - last season Fulham spent more than £120million - Wolves spent £100million last season and another £90million this season. More importantly - Birghton's budget for players salaries was 18th in the PL - 11 of the Southampton players (who finished with 3 points more than Brighton last season) were paid more than the highest paid player at Brighton last season - including 2 who were on double the wages. Yes Brighton spent money - but it was still a bottom 3 budget and borderline players that Hughton had to work with. This season Brighton broke their transfer record 3 times - and effectively signed a fourth player who would also have broken the record on loan - and this was building on top of those who had been brought in the previous two seasons. It takes time to build a PL squad.

2. Alzate and Connolly were both injured for months - yet people on here keep claiming that Hughton should have played them. They are a year older and a year more mature and are contributing (and long may it continue).

3. The odds of a promoted team being relegated in the first two seasons after promotion are huge - most go back down - Norwich and Villa could go straight back down this year - Last year Huddersfield went down in their second season along with Cardiff and Fulham who had just been promoted - the year before Hull and Middlesbrough went straight back down. You have a 2/3 chance of going back down in the first two seasons. Keeping a team up for two seasons - particularly with the budget Brighton had - was a remarkable achievement - and people should acknowledge it.

4. Potter has done well - but it is a major question whether he could have kept Brighton up for the last two seasons with the style of football he plays and the players that Hughton had at his disposal. As for spotting a good player - Potter intended sending Connolly out on loan until David Weir persuaded him not to, after seeing Connolly playing for Ireland in the underage tournament in Toulon in June. Hughton has been highly praising of Connolly this season - and there is no reason to think he would not have played him. We can disagree on this point - but neither of us can know for definite what would have happened. Hughton has used (and purchased) young players in the past when they were good enough and ready to play. Would the team be playing the expansive football like Potter if Hughton was the manager - unlikely - but it would also be better organised defensively - and you need to do the job at both ends of the pitch.

Hughton had a job - keep the team in the PL - he succeeded in that. The club's hierarchy chose to go in a different direction - and that is their choice - and it has worked out very well so far - but that does not in any way diminish what Hughton achieved at Brighton over the previous 4 years. As for Potter - we have no idea where he will end up - you claim he 'WILL' end up with a top 6 club - based on 20 games and 6 wins in the PL - that claim is a bit of a stretch and it will take a lot more time and success in the PL before he is mentioned as a possible candidate for any of those jobs. I hope he does - every manager who puts his reputation on the line deserves success - and Hughton has done that repeatedly and deserves to have his achievements acknowledged and respected. After that - the football this season has been entertaining and people should enjoy the ride instead of repeatedly feeling that they must make comparisons.

Spot on. Very fair.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Sorry but fear of conceding to me means ultra defensive. It has been said that there was a bust up at training due to fact that the training was all about defensive play, we had an offensive plan at the start of the season, I wonder what happened to that.

I think we were over-attacking in those games. We had a lot of possession in the opposition half, and then got done on the counter, over and over again, both Cardiff goals, the Burnley goals, most of Bournemouths. And as soon as we went behind we met brick walls erected by our relegation rivals.

There was a lack of confidence right through the club, which included CH losing some confidence in his style of play, that's my interpretatiin of what happened

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Agree with most of your post.....BUT................

They were also a year younger and less developed - and more to the point, they were mostly injured.

BTW, I don't actually think CH would have blooded them in the PL - but he also didn't have Trossard, Maupay, Webster and Mooy at his disposal.
Hughton was good - I was glad we had him. Potter is good - I'm glad we've got him - so not in any way taking sides, OK.

I take the point they were injured but both were injured by L1 clogging. That could have been the case in the PL as well. My mate googled Alzate when he got in the team at Newcastle - I can't imagine CH taking such a risk. There is no doubt we have a better squad this year but that's as much down to strong management as it is to recruitment.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This is a shit thread.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

And I have to go through this again - jeez



1. When you get promoted you have to buy players - and it is a lot harder to get players to join a promoted club than a club that is established in the PL. This season Villa spent more than £100million - last season Fulham spent more than £120million - Wolves spent £100million last season and another £90million this season. More importantly - Birghton's budget for players salaries was 18th in the PL - 11 of the Southampton players (who finished with 3 points more than Brighton last season) were paid more than the highest paid player at Brighton last season - including 2 who were on double the wages. Yes Brighton spent money - but it was still a bottom 3 budget and borderline players that Hughton had to work with. This season Brighton broke their transfer record 3 times - and effectively signed a fourth player who would also have broken the record on loan - and this was building on top of those who had been brought in the previous two seasons. It takes time to build a PL squad.

2. Alzate and Connolly were both injured for months - yet people on here keep claiming that Hughton should have played them. They are a year older and a year more mature and are contributing (and long may it continue).

3. The odds of a promoted team being relegated in the first two seasons after promotion are huge - most go back down - Norwich and Villa could go straight back down this year - Last year Huddersfield went down in their second season along with Cardiff and Fulham who had just been promoted - the year before Hull and Middlesbrough went straight back down. You have a 2/3 chance of going back down in the first two seasons. Keeping a team up for two seasons - particularly with the budget Brighton had - was a remarkable achievement - and people should acknowledge it.

4. Potter has done well - but it is a major question whether he could have kept Brighton up for the last two seasons with the style of football he plays and the players that Hughton had at his disposal. As for spotting a good player - Potter intended sending Connolly out on loan until David Weir persuaded him not to, after seeing Connolly playing for Ireland in the underage tournament in Toulon in June. Hughton has been highly praising of Connolly this season - and there is no reason to think he would not have played him. We can disagree on this point - but neither of us can know for definite what would have happened. Hughton has used (and purchased) young players in the past when they were good enough and ready to play. Would the team be playing the expansive football like Potter if Hughton was the manager - unlikely - but it would also be better organised defensively - and you need to do the job at both ends of the pitch.

Hughton had a job - keep the team in the PL - he succeeded in that. The club's hierarchy chose to go in a different direction - and that is their choice - and it has worked out very well so far - but that does not in any way diminish what Hughton achieved at Brighton over the previous 4 years. As for Potter - we have no idea where he will end up - you claim he 'WILL' end up with a top 6 club - based on 20 games and 6 wins in the PL - that claim is a bit of a stretch and it will take a lot more time and success in the PL before he is mentioned as a possible candidate for any of those jobs. I hope he does - every manager who puts his reputation on the line deserves success - and Hughton has done that repeatedly and deserves to have his achievements acknowledged and respected. After that - the football this season has been entertaining and people should enjoy the ride instead of repeatedly feeling that they must make comparisons.

I think this is where pretty much all of us are with regards to feelings towards CH. He spent 4 and a half seasons with us, that's a long time and his achievements are rightly lauded and the guy highly respected. That his time had come to an end was recognised and accepted by all but the most ardent CH loyalists, however sad most of us felt at the time. It is also true that Potter was a bit of a risk, but one that is working out amazingly so far, which tells us that the club really do seem to know what they're doing. I don't think this needs to be argued any more because with the exception of a few loud spoken people on social media this is how we feel. Comparisons between the managers are inevitable and not something to worry about if you can look at dispassionately.

 

[GT49er]

I take the point they were injured but both were injured by L1 clogging. That could have been the case in the PL as well. My mate googled Alzate when he got in the team at Newcastle - I can't imagine CH taking such a risk. There is no doubt we have a better squad this year but that's as much down to strong management as it is to recruitment.

Connolly was injured before he was loaned out - although the loan started in January, he didn't recover to play for Luton until April. Must have been injured by BHA PL/U23 cloggers in training, eh?

 

[GT49er]

This is a shit thread.

.....but is lasting longer than an average 80s German electro-pop band's career, eh?

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

I think this is where pretty much all of us are with regards to feelings towards CH. He spent 4 and a half seasons with us, that's a long time and his achievements are rightly lauded and the guy highly respected. That his time had come to an end was recognised and accepted by all but the most ardent CH loyalists, however sad most of us felt at the time. It is also true that Potter was a bit of a risk, but one that is working out amazingly so far, which tells us that the club really do seem to know what they're doing. I don't think this needs to be argued any more because with the exception of a few loud spoken people on social media this is how we feel. Comparisons between the managers are inevitable and not something to worry about if you can look at dispassionately.

And that is the key - different managers - different squads - different seasons.

I was critical of Hughton's sacking - but that is done and dusted - and so far Potter has worked out pretty well. Yes the style of football is different - yes it is more entertaining - there are better players here this season - and hopefully at the end of it people will be able to celebrate looking forward to another season in the PL.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Connolly was injured before he was loaned out - although the loan started in January, he didn't recover to play for Luton until April. Must have been injured by BHA PL/U23 cloggers in training, eh?

Didn't he get injured a 2nd time at Luton? I thought he went injured, recovered and got injured again? Happy to stand to be corrected.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Didn't he get injured a 2nd time at Luton? I thought he went injured, recovered and got injured again? Happy to stand to be corrected.

Nope - Connolly was listed as recovered from injury on 4 Apr. He was a sub (68mins) for Luton against Charlton on 13 Apr - wasn't in the squad against Accrington on 20 Apr - an unused sub against Wimbledon on 23 Apr - unused sub against Burton in 27 Apr - sub (88mins) against Oxford on 3 May.

Connolly was stretchered off with about 10 minutes to go in an U23 PL2 game against Liverpool on 14 January - he had been hurt the previous week against Arsenal U23s (he limped off after 20-odd minutes) - and possibly was not diagnosed properly. He was due to go to Luton on the 2 Feb.

 

[dazzer6666]

I think this is where pretty much all of us are with regards to feelings towards CH. He spent 4 and a half seasons with us, that's a long time and his achievements are rightly lauded and the guy highly respected. That his time had come to an end was recognised and accepted by all but the most ardent CH loyalists, however sad most of us felt at the time. It is also true that Potter was a bit of a risk, but one that is working out amazingly so far, which tells us that the club really do seem to know what they're doing. I don't think this needs to be argued any more because with the exception of a few loud spoken people on social media this is how we feel. Comparisons between the managers are inevitable and not something to worry about if you can look at dispassionately.

This. Please close this thread Mods.........

 

[GT49er]

Didn't he get injured a 2nd time at Luton? I thought he went injured, recovered and got injured again? Happy to stand to be corrected.

All I know is that he was loaned (injured) on 31st. January, and stayed here for treatment/rehabilitation, and didn't play for Luton until April. Don't think we let him actually go there until he was fit and ready to play, once inculcated into the Luton coach's ideas.

 

[rogersix]

And I have to go through this again - jeez

ffs. no...no you don't, get over yourself and stop howling at the wind

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

ffs. no...no you don't, get over yourself and stop howling at the wind

I only respond - if you don't want me to respond then I suggest you encourage others to let this Potter/Hughton thing go - time to look forward.