Was the Argus right to print the names of the players accused of the sex assault?

[Questions]

That's bullshit.

Police have done f*** all, its come up on their list after a few months and they've finally got around to looking at it.

Do we live in a country that allows 6 sex attackers to roam free for 7 months before arresting them?

Its a f***ing farce, and there is more chance of Palarse and Brighton supporters having a love in at Selhurst next week, than these players being charged.

Major investigation? My arse.

I get the impression that the only reason the police have acted now is that they have finally identified the suspects. So new evidence MAY be gotten from this point on concerning the 4 involved.

It doesn`t take 6 months to process the evidence unless its a lack of identification surely ?

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I think the Argus should be ashamed of their actions. They've shown no regard at all for the 6 players they named, they've sold them down the river for a sensationalist front page story. If I were one of those named, I would never deal with them again. Complete disgrace in my opinion, really unneccessary thing to do.

 

[m20gull]

I've not seen the front page so cannot comment on the context. I have no problem with the names being printed, but even in the thread title here they are "accused of the sex assault". It's the context that is important, as Elphick's complete exoneration has since proved.

 

[blazey59]

Lets hope you dont get arrested mate, then you will know how it feels, you mug

 

[blazey59]

If scum papers like the argus printed boring truth they wouldnt sell any, let hope something nasty happens to them which they werent responsible for, I bet the journalist who wrote the picece doesnt come out explain why he/she and the editor published the article with factual information.

I feel very sorry for the person that has been assaulted but thats Sussex Polices job to find the culprit/s, lets hope those people that are inocent take the argus to the cleaners.
How can any possible prosecuetion not be influenced by circulating those names all over Sussex & Surrey. Trouble is Sussex Police's record of clearing up serious crime and getting the right person is not very good as we have seen in the past.

 

[jameswestport]

Its a newspaper its how they make money. GET OVER IT

 

[Cappers]

The Arsegas would be nothing without the Albion. Why would you do that to your best "customer" even if you could?

 

[LamieRobertson]

sorry if its been mentioned b4..i only caught sight of the argus cover as i was shopping tonight ....will they b putting the name of the brighton player eliminated from there enquiries on the front page in nice bold print?

 

[albiongirl]

No they shouldn't especially as one player has been released with no charge and now his name and reputation have been ruined just for a sensational story. I just feel for them at present they must be going through hell.

 

[jessiejames]

Of course it's f***ing wrong. This will hang over all 6 of those players heads for the rest of their CAREERS. Regardless of guilt. No doubt in five years time, if you google ............ the autocomplete will be sexual assault or similar.

This

 

[eastlondonseagull]

Anyone? Have they been formally named by the police? If not, then surely the Argus has broken the law?

 

[eastlondonseagull]

... it was made quite clear by the police spokesperson why the arrests had been made at that time. All it means, in the most simple legal terms, is that there was deemed to be reasonable grounds to suspect their involvement, and the police want to speak to them about it so that they can give their own accounts.

So they've not been accused, then? So surely the Argus are in legal shit, here?

 

[Zeff]

The club would have known about the front page and would have gone along with it. It sends out a good message from the club for not stopping it, and is a lesson for everyone invovled in the future of the club and will be used as an example.

Maybe I'm wrong but I haven't heard any complaints from the club yet.

Can you imagine the powers that be within the club seeing the front page before print and "going along with it" I don't think so

Whilst I agree with many on here that the players should have been named, the manor it which they chose to do it was wrong on so many fronts.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

I don't think anyone is saying they should've hidden it, but perhaps the over top way they showed the names was not proportionate.

I don't recall them doing this for any other sex attacker. And do they always show the place of work and the company logo of the business that the accused works at?

No. Because most "sex attackers" as you call them (I prefer ALLEGED in there ...) don't work in high-profile positions for the single most popular and newsworthy company in the city.

 

[Mr Burns]

Have you not read any of the news articles relating to this? From what you've just written, I assume not, and that you're just letting your pathological resentment of the police override any sense of rationality on this one.

Why do you presume I have resentment of the police?

I have resentment of the system. If a crime is so serious, why has it taken 6 months to arrest them? Are the police that useless that it takes them 6 months to identify a group of professional footballers (Im not suggesting they are), or is sexual harressment not that important to justify quicker arrests. IMO opinion, its the police going through the motions. They will be rebailed in March, and then the case will be dropped later in the year.

Not their fault, they have to investagate it, but I fail to see why you think I have a pathological resentment of the police. Are you one of these police who take offensive at the slightest critisim, are you that mighty no one can say the slightest thing against the police?

I suggest you read what I wrote before assuming I have a pathological resentment of your lot.

 

[Mr Burns]

Mr Burns. I almost can't be bothered to say this as I realise nobody will ever change your standpoint on the subject, but for the benefit of others:

In a hypothetical case where the identity of suspected offenders were known, and there was sufficient grounds to arrest them- let's say for a burglary- it would be considered an abuse of process not to arrest them at the earliest opportunity. For an arrest to be lawful, police require reasonable grounds to suspect an individual of involvement...don't ask me to define what reasonable is, because it covers a myriad of factors. They don't require a stack of evidence at that stage as often the person's interview influences what evidence needs to be gathered and it's essential to get that account in order to progress things.

Anyway, if I turned up at a custody centre with a person I'd just got round to nicking for this random burglary that happened a year ago (this is still a 100% hypothetical case, please note), having not done anything with it in the meantime, the Custody Sergeant would more than likely tell me to do one and let him go, because there was no necessity for that person to be arrested at that point. There was nothing to be gained by arresting them because anything I needed to do with the person (eg search their house for stolen gear, seize items for forensic examination) could and should have been done at the time of the offence, and would now probably have been lost with the passage of time. Even if by some miracle the Sergeant authorised the detention of that person for interview, which I very much doubt they would, then the CPS would quite possibly dismiss the job subsequently on the basis that it's an abuse of process and the police have lost too much potential evidence by sitting on it for so long. So it's not actually in anybody's interest to waste time for the sake of it. Secondly, the victim: it'd be a bit of a piss take to the burglary victim to tell them in November that we have a suspect but that we can't be arsed to go and pick them up until May.

If you actually read what's been written so far about the Albion players' matter, it was made quite clear by the police spokesperson why the arrests had been made at that time. All it means, in the most simple legal terms, is that there was deemed to be reasonable grounds to suspect their involvement, and the police want to speak to them about it so that they can give their own accounts. On that basis, one player has now been completely exonerated, and the others will need to wait while further investigations are carried out to determine what happens next. For those five, it implies neither innocence nor guilt. It's just a step in an investigation, which will be worked out in due course.

Cricky you have got a bee in your bonnet Edna haven't you. What's the matter, Ned not giving you any? lol

For what's its worth I was having a dig at the way the Argus reported the story, not the police handling of it. The clue is in the title of the thread.

The police have a job to do, but the way the Argus have blown it out of proporation, you would think crime of the century had been commited.

IMO the police are looking into it, as I presume they have to when someone reports a sexual assult. The fact it has taken six months to arrest 6 professional footballers, suggests to me that the police are not taking it too serious, and that there is little chance of anyone being charged.

For what its worth, I totally against a system that allows people to be named like this. They should be as annonmous as the "victim" until such time they are charged or convicted. If they are convicted, cut their f***ing bollocks off for all I care. I am also against a system that allows police to wait 6 months beifore making an arrest (obviosuly presuming the offensive was reported straight away, which it was) and then bail people over and over again for months. Are you seriosuly suggesting that it has taken someone six months to build this case to a point where they are ready to make arrests. Or is it more likely it was placed in a queue, and only just reached the top of the pile? The fact this is now high profile means that on 21st march the men will probably know either way what is happening, but if it wasn't a bunch of footballers, then they will be rebailed in March "pending further queries", aka waiting for the case to reach the top of the pile again.

So before saying no one can change my viewpoint, change the f***ing record, and at least realise what my viewpoint is first!

Now if you think that is having a go at the police, then you are completely wrong. Its the system in place that I am having a go at. If you don't believe that, and think because of that view I have a pathological resentment of the old bill, I really couldn't care less. Get over yourself. Not everyone that don't lick the polices arse, resent them!

 

[Mr Burns]

I get the impression that the only reason the police have acted now is that they have finally identified the suspects. So new evidence MAY be gotten from this point on concerning the 4 involved.

It doesn`t take 6 months to process the evidence unless its a lack of identification surely ?

I can see what you are saying, but I don't buy that at all. 6 professional footballers. I think they would have known who they were straight away. I know only Lewis Dunk is well known out of the bunch, but if it takes Sussex Police six months to ID 6 local professonal football players, then it doesn't give us much hope (keep your wig on Edna, I'm not suggesting it did take the police 6 months to ID them!!)

 

[Mr Burns]

So they've not been accused, then? So surely the Argus are in legal shit, here?

See Edna. Another reason why i was having a go at the Argus.

The Argus is so full of shit with its headlines.

I remember one story years ago, when the big headline was "Police Smash Piracy Factory"

From the story you would have thought it was some big factory somewhere churning out millions of DVDs a week. It was one bloke burning disc on his PC under the stairs and selling them almost at cost to his mates.

The Argus is no better than the News of the World. Get the headline, f*** the person involved or the story.

You've only got to look at some of Andy Naylors story and quotes of Gus, and then listen to Gus' interviews and see that they are trying to make a story out of a non event some of the time.

The Argus is gutter press at its worse. Has been for many years now.

 

[Mr Burns]

I have not read the Argus. It is unfair to print the names of the accused without printing the name of the complainant and her occupation. And her picture (arguable?).

It is simply not justice.

PS: It was possible to work out the names of the players with the information given.

This is where I think the system needs a compelte review.

I agree that she should for now remain annonoymous. But then I think the same should be said of the men arrested.

Not speaking of this case, but if in a similar case the men are guilty, then she should remain annoyomous.
If in a case it turns out it was a malicilous claim by the girl, she should be named and shamed. If a case is dropped through lack of evidence then I beleive no one should be named, or everyone should be named.

The problem I see in cases like this, I believe the case will be dropped and there will be no charges. I say that for no other reason than the time it has taken for the arrests to be made. I know of other cases where this was the case, and the man arrested was kept waiting for months, even though the person making the accusation was a known layer and contridicted herself over and over again, and he was arrested around 6 months after the compliant was made. Even though it could easily be proved she was lying, she got off scott free, and although the person arrest was as innoccent as they come, he still had it hanging over him for many months.

The main problem is this then goes down as stat, and the conviction rate of sexual assault is about I beleive in the single numbers percentage wise. I read a few between 6% and 10%. I know we are about the lowest in Europe.

This can only put women off reporting serious cases, which is completely wrong.

I just don't believe people should be arrested and named for this type of offensive, unless there is a good chance of conviction. I personally think the men should have been "invited" to the police station to put there side of the story, and then be arrested if the police think there were grounds for it. But the fact the conviction rate is so low, suggests that in most cases there are not grounds for arrests, and I just fear it stops women reporting crimes because they see theres not a lot of point.

One final thing to add before I go to sleep and set of to Peteborough, if no charges are brought, I just hope the facts come out, and someone tells their side of the story. That is all.

 

[hitony]

Its a newspaper its how they make money. GET OVER IT

So working on that theory, we can say to scammers who con money out of old and vunerable people "Its a conman its how they make money. GET OVER IT"...or maybe to a Bank robber "Its a Bankrobber its how they make money. GET OVER IT".....or even a loan company that charges extortionate interest rates "Its a loan shark its how they make money. GET OVER IT"

Can you see how your comment breaks down completel yes they are a newspaper, but how they make money is actually very important to many individuals, as in this case.

It might be a bit wiser to put up a constructive debate or statement of facts, as opposed to washing it off with the sweeping coment as you have done, but if you can't then we do understand.