Vote Tory for a..umm...err..we sort of might have a sort of referendum on Europe.

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

What a fudge Dave. 2015 and we get a renegotiation refererendum and then perhaps an in out vote.

 

[Benson]

If he keeps on scoring last minute penalties under pressure, I'm in.

Although we shouldn't really be in that position in the first place.

 

[dingodan]

If he keeps on scoring last minute penalties under pressure, I'm in.

Although we shouldn't really be in that position in the first place.

This.

 

[pauli cee]

and that.....

 

[Albumen]

Vote Tory and .... nope, can't imagine it.

 

[HovaGirl]

Well, of the 3 major parties:
Labour - no referendum
Lib/Dem - no referendum
Tories - you get your referendum

Vote UKIP, and that will pinch many of the Tory votes and let in Labour and/or the Cleggmobiles.

It's a case of voting for the least worst option.

 

[pastafarian]

What a fudge Dave. 2015 and we get a renegotiation refererendum and then perhaps an in out vote.

not entirely sure you have interpreted the news correctly,but i am half asleep and could be wrong

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Good. As I said in another thread it's about time the UK puts up or shuts up. I'm fed up with the in, out, veto nonsense. Join in properly or sod off and hang out on the margins with those hugely influential countries like Norway and Switzerland.

 

[beorhthelm]

Germany will be next

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Germany will be next

Okay. I'll bite.

No chance, they're not fools. Besides, you can't lead Europe from the margins

 

[cunning fergus]

Good. As I said in another thread it's about time the UK puts up or shuts up. I'm fed up with the in, out, veto nonsense. Join in properly or sod off and hang out on the margins with those hugely influential countries like Norway and Switzerland.

I think a vast majority of the UK electorate are also fed up with the in, out, veto nonsense. As noted above all the political parties in recent years have promised a referendum and yet we have had nothing.

To be honest even this promise is based on a series of conditions that involve the Tories winning the next election.........so nothing is guaranteed...........and even then it's nothing till 2018.

In the meantime the pro Europeans will drone on about the economic benefits and how the UK will experience an economic holocaust when big business and the banks would all f*** off to Greece, or Spain, or Slovenia and make millions unemployed in a piqué of spite in the event the the British electorate had the temerity to vote on its own destiny.

On the ground the British working classes in particular will have to deal with competing for work with another tranche of economic migrants from Bulgaria and Romania..........with Turkey waiting on the sidelines. Matters that by being in the EU they have never had a meaningful democratic vote on..............but then that's the way the UK politicians like it, so no wonder the British electorate don't trust them.

 

[pastafarian]

Good. As I said in another thread it's about time the UK puts up or shuts up. I'm fed up with the in, out, veto nonsense. Join in properly or sod off and hang out on the margins with those hugely influential countries like Norway and Switzerland.

i love the Swiss,they are historically isolationist,(with very good reason)
most people wrongly think they are separate from the EU.but they have been fully signed up members of the free EU trade agreement for 20 years or so(i think,i may be a few years out)they have been fully capable of keeping their national identity,controlling and growing their own economy without compromising their own laws and regulations,while at the same time reaping all the rewards
from being members of a free trade club

if it works for them no doubt its very possible it could work for the UK

 

[The Birdman]

I hate to say it we need to be in but we need to be in control of our own laws and rules. I thought when I voted for the common market it's was for trade not a federal Europe .

 

[CheeseRolls]

I think a vast majority of the UK electorate are also fed up with the in, out, veto nonsense. As noted above all the political parties in recent years have promised a referendum and yet we have had nothing.

To be honest even this promise is based on a series of conditions that involve the Tories winning the next election.........so nothing is guaranteed...........and even then it's nothing till 2018.

In the meantime the pro Europeans will drone on about the economic benefits and how the UK will experience an economic holocaust when big business and the banks would all f*** off to Greece, or Spain, or Slovenia and make millions unemployed in a piqué of spite in the event the the British electorate had the temerity to vote on its own destiny.

On the ground the British working classes in particular will have to deal with competing for work with another tranche of economic migrants from Bulgaria and Romania..........with Turkey waiting on the sidelines. Matters that by being in the EU they have never had a meaningful democratic vote on..............but then that's the way the UK politicians like it, so no wonder the British electorate don't trust them.

This is where practical politics takes over from idealogy and I can see why you don't like it.

I am sure you would rather we had a straight choice between an opt out and all of the worst aspects of European integration. The current UK position of sitting on the sides and sniping helps no one and matters are only going to get worse, unless we engage. Politicians are supposed to try and make things better and a choice between this is the best stay in position Cameron can negotiate and an opt out, is a far better choice for the British electorate.

 

[Kumquat]

i love the Swiss,they are historically isolationist,(with very good reason)
most people wrongly think they are separate from the EU.but they have been fully signed up members of the free EU trade agreement for 20 years or so(i think,i may be a few years out)they have been fully capable of keeping their national identity,controlling and growing their own economy without compromising their own laws and regulations,while at the same time reaping all the rewards
from being members of a free trade club

if it works for them no doubt its very possible it could work for the UK

They even manage to be famous the world over for their army knife while not actually having an army that takes part in armed conflict. It's like a nation of bald people inventing the world's best comb. Or something.

 

[pastafarian]

They even manage to be famous the world over for their army knife while not actually having an army that takes part in armed conflict. It's like a nation of bald people inventing the world's best comb. Or something.

in fairness it is a cracking army knife if not for the fact its actually quite useless unless you want to clear out your ear wax with a corkscrew/spatula type instrument.

ps they all have guns,not sure of the actual figure but they are one of the biggest "non" standing armies kicking about

plus they eat a lot of cheese

 

[Kumquat]

in fairness it is a cracking army knife if not for the fact its actually quite useless unless you want to clear out your ear wax with a corkscrew/spatula type instrument.

ps they all have guns,not sure of the actual figure but they are one of the biggest "non" standing armies kicking about

plus they eat a lot of cheese

From what I gather the army actually comprises the whole male population of a fit age. They just call on them when needed I guess. They've had two referendums in the last 25 years on scrapping it entirely.

 

[cunning fergus]

This is where practical politics takes over from idealogy and I can see why you don't like it.

I am sure you would rather we had a straight choice between an opt out and all of the worst aspects of European integration. The current UK position of sitting on the sides and sniping helps no one and matters are only going to get worse, unless we engage. Politicians are supposed to try and make things better and a choice between this is the best stay in position Cameron can negotiate and an opt out, is a far better choice for the British electorate.

The current UK position has been partly created by UK politicians agreeing to matters in Brussels and then deceiving the UK electorate about the implications for them. How often we're we told that the EU was not about a "united states of Europe" or that The Lisbon Treaty was just a "tiding up exercise".

The one single thing that politicians should do is represent the interests of their electorate, and on Europe they have singularly failed to do this. Instead they have acted in the interests of big business and they have acted in the interests of the free market Thatcherite capitalists.

Frankly this promise is more of the same, all sizzle and no sausage.

As for the UK being alone I disagree, both the French and Dutch electorates rejected the Lisbon Treaty and other electorates have rejected the EU pro choice in votes. Voters are unhappy with the EU in Spain and Greece and in Germany and Holland for completely different reasons.

They can see the Emperor's new clothes and like many in the UK they don't like the look of them either.

 

[pastafarian]

From what I gather the army actually comprises the whole male population of a fit age. They just call on them when needed I guess. They've had two referendums in the last 25 years on scrapping it entirely.

you are not too far wrong
but they have to have done national service to keep the gun at home as required

how did the referendums pan out?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

What a fudge Dave. 2015 and we get a renegotiation refererendum and then perhaps an in out vote.

You might want to re-read the news. Certainly the BBC are reporting a renegotiation followed by a clear in/out referendum.