[News] Volcanic eruption on White Island

[Insel affe]

Me and the wife went to White Island from a tourist trip out of Whakatane in the Bay of Plenty in 2008 on boxing day I think, it was a long boat ride, I think about an hour with dolphins following along, the waters around the volcano are teaming with sharks as the water is so warm and a really bright blue colour, I think because of something to do with the volcano.

The landing pad/ jetty (big rocks with metal poles to moor boats to) they showed on the news was the same, and we got to walk around the inner crater, and it was steaming back then from memory, there was also a lake of some kind in the centre which we obviously were not allowed to close to, but I could be wrong on that.

It was worth while trip and fascinating hearing the history behind the sulphur mining they did and the big explosion that killed workers back in the early 1900's - 1920's, also the tale of man who got shanghaid into working the island and tied himself to the ships mast in an effort to stop being taken off the boat to work the mines.

R.I.P those that sadly lost their lives yesterday.

 

[Fungus]

there hadnt been an eruption since 2001 apparently. so the question being asked is, was there enough monitoring of the volcano to predict a eruption and cancel tours. if you had asked the question last week "is it safe" the answer was probably yes, unless some experts are going to say they were giving warnings etc.

According to the Beeb:
"...White Island has been classified as New Zealand's most active volcano since 1976, when it began 24 years of almost continuous eruption. A second "eruptive episode" started in 2011 and continues today. "
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-50710998

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There were warnings on 25th November.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503343&objectid=12288177

 

[Notters]

That's no argument, some volcanoes are far more dangerous than others. Putting yourself and rescuers at risk to tick a bucket list is thoughtless to say the least.

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Again, perhaps a few dozen people visit this volcano which erupts ~10 years, compared to 900,000 people who live on Tenerife (+ tourists) which erupts ~once every 100 years? Which is the greater risk?

 

[Gazwag]

That's no argument, some volcanoes are far more dangerous than others. Putting yourself and rescuers at risk to tick a bucket list is thoughtless to say the least.

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The other side of the coin is that tourism provides valuable income to very poor areas

 

[Paskman]

Again, perhaps a few dozen people visit this volcano which erupts ~10 years, compared to 900,000 people who live on Tenerife (+ tourists) which erupts ~once every 100 years? Which is the greater risk?

The answer to that was seen yesterday.

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[Paskman]

The other side of the coin is that tourism provides valuable income to very poor areas

If does, but the rescue services will be equally poor in those areas, so don't expect the cavalry when things go wrong. I also do not think that that applies in this case.

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[Triggaaar]

Tragic events in New Zealand, obviously, but I find myself somewhat puzzled by this sentence in today's BBC piece on it:

Since the eruption, experts are arguing whether the tours to the island were a disaster waiting to happen or still safe enough for visitors.​

How can anyone, expert or otherwise, argue that it was "safe enough for visitors" when this minor eruption occurred, causing five to lose their lives, eight to be missing (presumed dead) and many others suffering burns so severe they may also not survive.

I'd guess that the point is we now obviously know it wasn't safe, but before the eruption did we have enough knowledge to know it wasn't safe and to stop the tours, or with our limited knowledge was it understandable that tours continued.

 

[Bozza]

I'd guess that the point is we now obviously know it wasn't safe, but before the eruption did we have enough knowledge to know it wasn't safe and to stop the tours, or with our limited knowledge was it understandable that tours continued.

Yes, but that wasn't my point.

My point is that the articles states that even SINCE the tragedy, some have been arguing that it was safe.

Hindsight surely shows it wasn't safe.

 

[Change at Barnham]

I was in Rotorua a couple of weeks ago during the England cricket tour and thought about going on the helicopter to visit White Island. When I enquired it cost $1200 (£600) which I thought was a bit steep and as I'm a bit tight, I swerved it.
However it does looks a remarkable place.

 

[Triggaaar]

Yes, but that wasn't my point.

My point is that the articles states that even SINCE the tragedy, some have been arguing that it was safe.

Hindsight surely shows it wasn't safe.

Well I was wondering if that's not what they meant? Obviously it wasn't safe. Are they really arguing that, or are they meaning 'did it appear to be safe?'

Kind of like if a car crashes and hit pedestrians on the pavement. Was it safe for pedestrians to use the pavement? Well not on that occasion, but maybe the car crashing was a one off (eg, due to a driver losing consciousness) and in the future the roads and pavements will continue to sit side by side without barriers.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Yes, the question was tragically answered yesterday.

Personally, I wouldn’t go anywhere near a volcano. I’ve been scared of them ever since learning about Pompeii at primary school. An accompanying school’s programme, with screaming sound effects and crash zooms into those plaster casts of the dead, gave me nightmares.

It’s not so much the lava you need to worry about, it’s the pyroclastic surge. You can’t outrun it and if you’re in it you die horribly.

I suppose if adults choose to go near a volcano that’s their choice, but I’d ban anyone under 18, possibly 21, from going (or being taken by parents) to such a dangerous place.

I visited Pompeii when I was 13 and again 20 years later. It is one of the most fascinating places I have visited in my life. I also trekked up the side of Vesuvius and stared into the crater - isolated clouds of smoke billow from the sides but nothing much else in the hole.

The eeriest part for me was visiting Herculaneum which was buried under mud and lava within a matter of minutes, and you can see the dockside where people scrambled for boats but were killed as the sea boiled around them.

 

[Albion my Albion]

Everybody knows Yellowstone will erupt one day, in November there were 107 earthquakes yet 4 million go there every year

How many people actually live in or near Yellowstone National Park? I realize millions visit there every year but your chances are extremely low compared to a deadly auto accident because you only stay for a few days or maybe a week. I have yet to go to Yellowstone but do plan on visiting some day.

 

[birthofanorange]

I visited Pompeii when I was 13 and again 20 years later. It is one of the most fascinating places I have visited in my life. I also trekked up the side of Vesuvius and stared into the crater - isolated clouds of smoke billow from the sides but nothing much else in the hole.

The eeriest part for me was visiting Herculaneum which was buried under mud and lava within a matter of minutes, and you can see the dockside where people scrambled for boats but were killed as the sea boiled around them.

I went up there during an extended stay, whilst seeing Gilmour play. It really kinda hits home how awful it must have been. Also, I had no idea that it had last erupted as recently as the 1940s, which destroyed the funicular. One hell of a climb, too, especially during the heat of the Summer.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

We were on the end of a 6.2 earth tremor in NZ last Oct,wow the sheer power of Mother Nature. Yet until you feel it you just don't realise it.

 

[Swansman]

How can anyone, expert or otherwise, argue that it was "safe enough for visitors" when this minor eruption occurred, causing five to lose their lives, eight to be missing (presumed dead) and many others suffering burns so severe they may also not survive.

Going on tourist trips to volcanoes or to swim in oceans that have dangerous animals etc is always going to pose some risk, but statistically its probably a lot safer than driving a car or having a night out. You cant ban everything just because there's a possible risk of anything happening. If you do that you eventually end up in a society where you cant have a beer while watching football in a stadium...

 

[monty uk]

Aren't there tourist trips to most (or a lot of) active volcanoes ? I'm pretty certain there are trips to Etna by cable car and bus. I guess there is an element of the danger that actually attracts people.

Not for me.

*edit*

Apparently there's 13 at least, and I suspect a lot more

https://www.rd.com/advice/travel/active-volcanoes-you-can-visit/

Etna is a different type of volcano. When it erupts it doesn't blow out like a surfacing whale, but leaks like a ...well you work that one out. The lava in that case will flow down very slowly - something like 3 metres an hour and can be outwalked. The top is very wide and flat so there is a wide area to get around any flows.. So not really a dangerous attraction. Certainly great to visit by cable car and all-terrain multi-seat vehicles. They aren't quite the same as the local Brighton & Hove bus.

 

[blue-shifted]

Yes, but that wasn't my point.

My point is that the articles states that even SINCE the tragedy, some have been arguing that it was safe.

Hindsight surely shows it wasn't safe.

Looking at things as safe or not safe is too binary. Better to see things like this in terms of levels of risk

Is anything totally safe?

 

[vegster]

Etna is a different type of volcano. When it erupts it doesn't blow out like a surfacing whale, but leaks like a ...well you work that one out. The lava in that case will flow down very slowly - something like 3 metres an hour and can be outwalked. The top is very wide and flat so there is a wide area to get around any flows.. So not really a dangerous attraction. Certainly great to visit by cable car and all-terrain multi-seat vehicles. They aren't quite the same as the local Brighton & Hove bus.

Indeed some active volcanoes are reasonably safe in that any eruptions are Effusive rather than Explosive. However, it's still an inexact science, prone to errors in frequency or volatility of eruptions. My view is to keep clear just in case.

 

[cloud]

Everybody knows Yellowstone will erupt one day, in November there were 107 earthquakes yet 4 million go there every year

It still amazes me the number of people who'll go and stand next to Yellowstone.