[News] Veterinary costs under investigation

[portlock seagull]

Welcome news. I took my doggy to the vet a couple of weeks ago for a follow-up check with a cardiac specialist. A 15 minute consultation which involved a few questions and brief physical examination cost a WOPPING £270. That works out at over £1000/hr. Not sure how this is justified, although I'm sure New Priory Vets (yes, I WILL name and shame them) would try to do so.

Fortunately, this was covered by my insurance. I imagine that people who can't afford these kind of ridiculous fees, or don't have/can't afford insurance might have some very tough choices to make when their pet starts to develop the inevitable later life conditions.

Why are they ridiculous? Did you spend 7 years at university studying etc? Should you have a pet if you cannot afford? they aren’t necessities but a luxury. Classic price of everything value of nothing stuff. Do you speak to vets and their staff ever? You’d realise many are on minimum wage equivalents. Total bollocks they’re all earning fortunes.

In the US, because people pay for medical care and don’t have the NHS, people rarely grumble about vet fees because they understand medical treatment costs and there’s no NHS fairy picking up the tab. Same with animals therefore. Sorry but demonising vets and their practices is a trend that’s completely unfair and ignorant rubbish in the main just as you’re spouting and spreading. Do yourself a favour and don’t comment on something you clearly don’t understand.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Why are they ridiculous? Did you spend 7 years at university studying etc? Should you have a pet if you cannot afford? they aren’t necessities but a luxury. Classic price of everything value of nothing stuff. Do you speak to vets and their staff ever? You’d realise many are on minimum wage equivalents. Total bollocks they’re all earning fortunes.

In the US, because people pay for medical care and don’t have the NHS, people rarely grumble about vet fees because they understand medical treatment costs and there’s no NHS fairy picking up the tab. Same with animals therefore. Sorry but demonising vets and their practices is a trend that’s completely unfair and ignorant rubbish in the main just as you’re spouting and spreading. Do yourself a favour and don’t comment on something you clearly don’t understand.

50 odd other posts in this thread disagree with you.

 

[Bodian]

My cat is costing us a small fortune at the moment - thyroid issues, and now potentially kidney issues as a result of the thyroid meds. Had to pick up a kit to get a urine sample this morning. It's a bag of hydrophobic sand to go in a litter tray, a test tube with cap, and a syringe for collecting the urine. £8.

£7.50 for the same thing for me up here. Not the vets fault - but £7.50 wasted, as our cat has never used a litter tray, and goes frantic if he can't get out. We tried - but he just wouldn't use it!

 

[Triggaaar]

Sadly vets can be as greedy as the rest of us

Actually, we're not all that greedy.

 

[bluenitsuj]

50 odd other posts in this thread disagree with you.

Well said.

Why are they ridiculous? Did you spend 7 years at university studying etc? Should you have a pet if you cannot afford? they aren’t necessities but a luxury. Classic price of everything value of nothing stuff. Do you speak to vets and their staff ever? You’d realise many are on minimum wage equivalents. Total bollocks they’re all earning fortunes.

In the US, because people pay for medical care and don’t have the NHS, people rarely grumble about vet fees because they understand medical treatment costs and there’s no NHS fairy picking up the tab. Same with animals therefore. Sorry but demonising vets and their practices is a trend that’s completely unfair and ignorant rubbish in the main just as you’re spouting and spreading. Do yourself a favour and don’t comment on something you clearly don’t understand.

The following from the CMA along with thousands of others would disagree with you, including vet professionals.

The Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) said it wanted to move forward with a full review after an initial inquiry triggered an “unprecedented response” from 56,000 people, including customers and vet professionals, who raised a number of concerns about practices within the £2bn industry.
The watchdog is concerned that consumers may not be given enough information to make informed decisions over care, and that a rise in consolidation resulting in fewer independent surgeries has weakened competition.

 

[portlock seagull]

50 odd other posts in this thread disagree with you.

Exactly why some balance is needed. The echo chamber is loud enough.

 

[dazzer6666]

Exactly why some balance is needed. The echo chamber is loud enough.

 

[portlock seagull]

Well said.

The following from the CMA along with thousands of others would disagree with you, including vet professionals.

The Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) said it wanted to move forward with a full review after an initial inquiry triggered an “unprecedented response” from 56,000 people, including customers and vet professionals, who raised a number of concerns about practices within the £2bn industry.
The watchdog is concerned that consumers may not be given enough information to make informed decisions over care, and that a rise in consolidation resulting in fewer independent surgeries has weakened competition.

And thousands don’t. Make a case for moaning about price of everything but people aren’t entitled to owning pets and have forever complained about vet bills. However unlike energy or food or other basic human needs such as housing, education or their own medical health care which are essentials owning a pet isn’t. Pets are luxuries. Far too many complain about vet costs when belatedly they realise how expensive treatment can be and insurance coverage limits. Corporate takeovers of many independent practices as in everything have increased prices for sure but as said people have moaned about cost of medical care for animals for at least past 40 years in my experience. People don’t like paying. Simple. With little knowledge of just how expensive it costs to run a practice, train as a vet, develop drugs etc. That side isn’t represented fairly in these public debates, as NSC demonstrates. Go and speak to Vets and Nurses yourself. Ask how much they’re paid and if they can even make ends meet? Huge issue with staff retention and people leaving industry. Not enough qualified, practices full like dentists and lots of angry types giving daily abuse that was unheard of a decade ago. (Lots of chavvy XL bully owner types probably!) As with everything the internet has killed off several income streams formally for vets so they need to increase prices for stuff you can’t get online maybe?

 

[The Clamp]

Not sure how much truth there is in it but Cathy Dennis went out with Noel Fitzpatrick and later wrote the song 'Toxic' about him which Britney Spears had a big old hit with.

I believe that’s true.

 

[Cotton Socks]

Anyone got any experiences of PDSA?

I think they're geared to do stuff for those who can't afford to pay - how is that assessed?

Find out more about PDSA's services

PDSA provides free or low cost treatment in our pet hospitals for poorly pets in need.

www.pdsa.org.uk

​

Free Service - free treatments and medications​

To qualify for free treatments and medications, you must live within the postcode catchment area of one of our Pet Hospitals and be receiving at least one of the following benefits:

• Housing benefit (means tested)
• Council tax support (means tested)
• Universal credit with housing element

Our Free Service is only available for one pet per household. Any additional pets can be registered for our Low Cost Service.*

Low Cost Service – low cost treatments and medications​

To qualify for low cost treatments and medications, you must live within the postcode catchment area of one of our Pet Hospitals and be receiving at least one of the following benefits:

• Child tax and working tax credits
• Universal credit without housing element
• Pension credit
• Income support
• Job seekers allowance
• ESA – (Income Based Only) Employment Support Allowance
• Disability Living Allowance (DLA) / Personal Independence Payment (PIP) / Adult Disability Payment (ADP)
• State retired pensioners who are householders living in council tax bands a – d

Our low cost prices are typically 20% to 30% lower than private veterinary practices. This can vary, depending on the treatment.

 

[portlock seagull]

I wouldn’t say they are, just as with most things the lay person isn’t by any means an expert and as this thread demonstrates, the other side of the argument is poorly understood because it’s not popular. NSC at its finest, like two old dears queuing at the post office and having a good old moan about matters they’ve zero experience or understanding of. Just repeating popular sentiment, the worlds against us and so forth when in the same circumstances they’d do the exact same ie utter hypocrisy.

 

[Sirnormangall]

To an extent this is how insurance works though. You are pricing risk, pretty much exactly like a bookie. Man City aren't going to give the same returns on a £1 bet to win the Premier League as Brentford. The risk of City winning it is simply greater. So it is with older versus younger pets (and, within those, breed - you don't want to see the risk loading for a Westie for example - huge).

@Brovian mentioned that he simply puts money into savings. When I was discussing this with him I countered with the fact that my young dog (he's still only 2) made me an insurance 'profit' last policy year. The rebate I got for him having a grass seed removed from his ear was greater than the whole year's premiums and they paid out same day.

Lifetime pet insurance policy types also allow for your pet to be covered when they get older. If you've got a young animal they work very well. Exclusions aren't added as they get older and the claimable limits renew with the premium.

If you haven't got a lifetime policy, if you want to move insurers or if you adopt or rescue an older animal then the savings scheme is entirely sensible. Starting from scratch with insurance for an older animal is just going to be sunk money. The premiums will be high and the exclusions restrictive.

TL;DR? Insurance works well for some people but not others.

Having worked in insurance I understand what you say, but that sector doesn’t have a great record in providing good value for money products and I feel this is one of them………and don’t get me started on motor insurance where the excessive charging by repairers drives up the cost of insurance premiums (similar to vet charges).

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I wouldn’t say they are, just as with most things the lay person isn’t by any means an expert and as this thread demonstrates, the other side of the argument is poorly understood because it’s not popular. NSC at its finest, like two old dears queuing at the post office and having a good old moan about matters they’ve zero experience or understanding of. Just repeating popular sentiment, the worlds against us and so forth when in the same circumstances they’d do the exact same ie utter hypocrisy.

Many like me, accept the cost of the vets (within reason) for our animals however I recently changed from my vets I've used for decades. The reason is simple they have been taken over by one of these huge groups who have completely done away with any customer service and increased the basics by 30% The practise was only sold due to the death of the owner. Two of the vets have left as they were not happy and have gone to a small independent a few miles away. Guess where I and many others have gone?

I will broaden the discussion though. I have until a few years ago kept sheep/pigs/goats/horses/cats and still have a dog. I was allowed to buy and inject all the farm animals with any drug required this was even extended to the horses. The domestic pets though I was suddenly completely incompetent to administer anything. That's really odd as my farm animals were for human consumption and fully tested. My pets though are considered more important. The cost of drugs, albeit often exactly the same would be costed differently according to the animal they were for, why?

No one would deny a well qualified person, like a vet, from earning a good wage but what is of concern to many including the authorities is that vets are being bought up by 6 or so large companies that have little regard for animals but see it as a pure cash cow. Some areas they have a monopoly. Speaking to a friend who is a farmer this is now impacting them as these companies are seeing farmers as the next target.

While owning a pet is a pleasure and a privilege to most they also play a huge part to play with the old and lonely, those suffering a myriad of illnesses and so on. Not everyone lives close to a Blue Cross (or similar) that can offer help for these people.

These companies are playing on heart strings of the animal loving nation we are, knowing most will find the money and it's not to pay the vets/nurses but shareholders of huge businesses many, who are owned overseas.

 

[Weststander]

And thousands don’t. Make a case for moaning about price of everything but people aren’t entitled to owning pets and have forever complained about vet bills. However unlike energy or food or other basic human needs such as housing, education or their own medical health care which are essentials owning a pet isn’t. Pets are luxuries. Far too many complain about vet costs when belatedly they realise how expensive treatment can be and insurance coverage limits. Corporate takeovers of many independent practices as in everything have increased prices for sure but as said people have moaned about cost of medical care for animals for at least past 40 years in my experience. People don’t like paying. Simple. With little knowledge of just how expensive it costs to run a practice, train as a vet, develop drugs etc. That side isn’t represented fairly in these public debates, as NSC demonstrates. Go and speak to Vets and Nurses yourself. Ask how much they’re paid and if they can even make ends meet? Huge issue with staff retention and people leaving industry. Not enough qualified, practices full like dentists and lots of angry types giving daily abuse that was unheard of a decade ago. (Lots of chavvy XL bully owner types probably!) As with everything the internet has killed off several income streams formally for vets so they need to increase prices for stuff you can’t get online maybe?

That is actually true that many people have always complained about the cost of vets. Wealthy but tight friends of my parents always slagged off the Rottingdean vet’s charges in the 90’s. My childhood best mate’s parents took their pets to the PDSA lying that they were poor in the 70’s … you could get away with it then.

I know some actual numbers. Vets equity partners have always earned fantastic money. But the change we’re talking about here is a rapid buying up of practices by private equity funds followed by a huge escalation in fees.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

That is actually true that many people have always complained about the cost of vets. Wealthy but tight friends of my parents always slagged off the Rottingdean vet’s charges in the 90’s. My childhood best mate’s parents took their pets to the PDSA lying that they were poor in the 70’s … you could get away with it then.

I know some actual numbers. Vets equity partners have always earned fantastic money. But the change we’re talking about here is a rapid buying up of practices by private equity funds followed by a huge escalation in fees.

That's the crux of the matter.

 

[portlock seagull]

Many like me, accept the cost of the vets (within reason) for our animals however I recently changed from my vets I've used for decades. The reason is simple they have been taken over by one of these huge groups who have completely done away with any customer service and increased the basics by 30% The practise was only sold due to the death of the owner. Two of the vets have left as they were not happy and have gone to a small independent a few miles away. Guess where I and many others have gone?

I will broaden the discussion though. I have until a few years ago kept sheep/pigs/goats/horses/cats and still have a dog. I was allowed to buy and inject all the farm animals with any drug required this was even extended to the horses. The domestic pets though I was suddenly completely incompetent to administer anything. That's really odd as my farm animals were for human consumption and fully tested. My pets though are considered more important. The cost of drugs, albeit often exactly the same would be costed differently according to the animal they were for, why?

No one would deny a well qualified person, like a vet, from earning a good wage but what is of concern to many including the authorities is that vets are being bought up by 6 or so large companies that have little regard for animals but see it as a pure cash cow. Some areas they have a monopoly. Speaking to a friend who is a farmer this is now impacting them as these companies are seeing farmers as the next target.

While owning a pet is a pleasure and a privilege to most they also play a huge part to play with the old and lonely, those suffering a myriad of illnesses and so on. Not everyone lives close to a Blue Cross (or similar) that can offer help for these people.

These companies are playing on heart strings of the animal loving nation we are, knowing most will find the money and it's not to pay the vets/nurses but shareholders of huge businesses many, who are owned overseas.

I don’t disagree with the corporate foreign bit, it’s undoubtably contributed to rising costs because the shareholder must be paid (many of whom are us however in the interests of balance) It is not the whole story though and even if it were, that’s the price that must be paid just like everything else that globally is increasingly concentrated in hands of powerful elites. Suck it up in other words, because money is the only god in our planetary town of heathen worshippers, 24/7! Earn more. Pay more. Buy more. This is what we are taught. That and feck everyone else. Screw or be screwed. I suggest you start f***ing everyone else therefore. Before they do you. Tis the universal language globally now. You are powerless to resist. You are nothing. Everyone is. So climb aboard the Cruise ship ‘Capitalism’ and pray it doesn’t hit an iceberg. Which it will. Eventually. Because it always does! But that’s when socialism gets the hospital pass to pick up the pieces

 

[Weststander]

I don’t disagree with the corporate foreign bit, it’s undoubtably contributed to rising costs because the shareholder must be paid (many of whom are us however in the interests of balance) It is not the whole story though and even if it were, that’s the price that must be paid just like everything else that globally is increasingly concentrated in hands of powerful elites. Suck it up in other words, because money is the only god in our planetary town of heathen worshippers, 24/7! Earn more. Pay more. Buy more. This is what we are taught. That and feck everyone else. Screw or be screwed. I suggest you start f***ing everyone else therefore. Before they do you. Tis the universal language globally now. You are powerless to resist. You are nothing. Everyone is. So climb aboard the Cruise ship ‘Capitalism’ and pray it doesn’t hit an iceberg. Which it will. Eventually. Because it always does! But that’s when socialism gets the hospital pass to pick up the pieces

I find myself moving ever more to the centre left economically. It’s not necessitated by self interest, but a compassion for others.

In 1973 Heath described Lonhro’s Tiny Rowland “the unacceptable face of capitalism”. From what I can see greed by billionaires and millionaires has accelerated apace in this age of globalisation and offshore tax havens. The UK veterinary marketplace is a great example. Investors without an ounce of interest in the profession, owners or pets, have poured money in and borrowed from banks to buy out vets, with the sole aim of making heaps of money in the medium term. Being private equity and based offshore, they haven’t the slightest interest in corporate governance, wider stakeholders or society.

 

[portlock seagull]

That is actually true that many people have always complained about the cost of vets. Wealthy but tight friends of my parents always slagged off the Rottingdean vet’s charges in the 90’s. My childhood best mate’s parents took their pets to the PDSA lying that they were poor in the 70’s … you could get away with it then.

I know some actual numbers. Vets equity partners have always earned fantastic money. But the change we’re talking about here is a rapid buying up of practices by private equity funds followed by a huge escalation in fees.

Trouble with ‘moneymen’ (to borrow Attilas phrase) is they’ll never understand you can’t eat cash. In other words there comes a time when having more of it serves no purpose and co dependency should have been realised a long time ago. Unfortunately by then, by the time this penny drops for them, we’re all dead already from starvation etc whilst they survived because they could still afford exorbitant prices that we, the plebs, couldn’t. Except now there’s no plebs left to feed them, no matter now much money they can afford and how exorbitant prices are.

And on that note, I bid you good night! More bollocks and bull tomorrow I promise

 

[Me and my Monkey]

Why are they ridiculous? Did you spend 7 years at university studying etc? Should you have a pet if you cannot afford? they aren’t necessities but a luxury. Classic price of everything value of nothing stuff. Do you speak to vets and their staff ever? You’d realise many are on minimum wage equivalents. Total bollocks they’re all earning fortunes.

In the US, because people pay for medical care and don’t have the NHS, people rarely grumble about vet fees because they understand medical treatment costs and there’s no NHS fairy picking up the tab. Same with animals therefore. Sorry but demonising vets and their practices is a trend that’s completely unfair and ignorant rubbish in the main just as you’re spouting and spreading. Do yourself a favour and don’t comment on something you clearly don’t understand.

You seem quite any angry person, and i'm not sure engaging in debate with you is wise, so I'll keep my reply brief.

Firstly, I'm not stupid, as you imply, and understand that keeping an animal is not cheap. Which is why I have been cautious and invested in a good, albeit expensive, insurance plan for my pet which has to date has covered his various pricy procedures and investigations. I also subscribe to my local (NOT New Priory) vet's own pet plan. This is costing me £160 a month already. Considering his age, I'm expecting this to rise not inconsiderably in September, and I will pay for this, or otherwise budget.

My point was that £270 for a 15 minute (I actually suspect it was nearer 10) consultation was a ridiculous amount of money. I still think it was a ridiculous amount of money. Is it not? Really?

I do not demonise Vets. I can quite believe that some of the staff are poorly paid. Most veterinary staff have the best interests of the animals at heart. The receptionist (New Priory) who took my £270 payment was clearly embarrassed when I raised my eyebrows at the amount. My local vets (NOT New Priory) are happy to write, in fact even suggested they write a prescription for my dog's numerous medicines so i can source cheaper (half the price) tablets.

The two main concerns on here, echoed by others and by the Monopolies Commission, are the extortionate rises in vet's fees, in particular at those practices that have been taken over by big business, and the pushing of services which are not fully explained nor necessarily needed, to people who are in a vulnerable position and only want the best for their animals. Judging from my own experience, and comments from others on here, New Priory seem to be particularly guilty of this.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I've generally been pretty happy with my vet, and my dog is a bit of an accident prone dick so it's not like I've not been in there regularly. The dog did something to his ankle recently and went lame, I took him in and the vet gave me a choice but said if it's fractured we really need to know, so I was booked in for an Xray (and sedation) on the Monday and the quote was £800. Over the weekend the swelling had settled down a bit, the dog was bearing some weight, so went in, the vet had another good look, said they were now confident it wasn't fractured, and sent us on our way and didn't charge for that visit (as I'd paid £45 I think for the consultation on the Saturday and £30 for a tiny bottle of Loxicom). Could have easily continued with the Xray but didn't.

When he was young he also broke his leg and need plates and pins, and I was referred to Anderson Abercromby over Horsham way, and they were excellent. I was insured, but the operation was £4600, but the bill was 3 or 4 pages long itemising everything, and you really appreciated as @portlock seagull says, the value you get from the NHS. There wasn't anything on the bill that jumped out at me as unreasonable, but very detailed, 3 swaps @50p, dressing @£2, nurse 2hrs @£35 ph etc.

Like car garages though, as a layman customer you are open to unscrupulous practices, and rather than this thread being against vets in general, I think we need to be mindful it's really against those unscrupulous operators rather than vets in general.