[Football] VAR set to be used in Premier League next season

[Seasider78]

So Mark Hughes now out moaning about a VAR decision saying it looked worse slowed down !!

 

[The Large One]

So Mark Hughes now out moaning about a VAR decision saying it looked worse slowed down !!

Is there anything more pointless in life than a Mark Hughes post-match interview?

The ultimate (on-pitch) football victim.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

Don't like it.

Don't want it.

It's a game. The primary objective is absoultely not to get every decision right.It's to make the game as enjoyable as possible for the ony people that should matter 9and in the long run the only peiople who do matter). The fans.

Contentious decisions are half the fun. They don't actually matter because it's a game. And, over a season, they will even out. No team ever got relegated/promoted on the basis of one decision. Even if it feels like it at the time.

I think it is inevitable that, once available, Refs will take the safe option of referring to it whenever there is any doubt. So it will get used far more than it should and will break up the game. Especially it will ruin that moment of goal celebration. Keeping that moment sacred is more important in my view than any number of incorrect decisions.

Totally agree with this. It will ruin the game. And teams aren't promoted or relegated on one decision - it takes a whole season of results to be in that position and things DO average out over the long term.

 

[Easy 10]

It needs to go on the screen and the VAR reviewers need to man up and tell us what they are reviewing and why the decision was made. Otherwise you have the stupid situation like we did last year of the last people to know whats happening are the 30,000 people in the ground who have paid and travelled to go there.

It really doesn't. This isn't X-Factor, we don't get to vote on the decision, so why do we have a "right" to view it while its being made ? Its simply down to the officials to make the call. By showing it on the giant screen while they decide, all you're going to do is inflame the situation with one set of supporters who end up on the wrong end of the call. And some of those calls will be mighty marginal, so there's always going to be one set of fans, and the manager, and the players, who end up pissed off and aggrieved at what they would deem the wrong decision being made DESPITE the ref viewing replays of it.

This is exactly why controversial / debatable incidents are never, ever replayed on the big screens right now. They'll show efforts on goal and near-misses, but you'll never see a disallowed goal, or a red card decision, or an offside goal replayed, because it'll just cause more grief and aggravation for the officials.

We're stuck with VAR now, its coming. No need to make it even MORE controversial than it already is by showing it to 30,000 biased, passionate, whipped-up pissed off punters. Just let the refs get on with making the decision as best they can, without simultaneously having all that grief raining down on them from the stands.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Is that £50k per showing a cost per match or the original outlay spread over a season or two as surely it cannot cost us that much each game at The Amex.

Sorry - the £50k was a guestimate on the cost of physically installing each (permanent) display. They wouldn't ever expect to move / come down (though they'd be modular in design, so COULD come down if they really needed to).

There are few running costs, bar a minimal amount of power, plus an operator - around £300 per match or so, if they haven't trained somebody in-house to do it. Allow another £10k or so per season for a fully inclusive service agreement.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

So Mark Hughes now out moaning about a VAR decision saying it looked worse slowed down !!

This was brilliant.

He wasn't arguing that it was NOT handball.

He was arguing that it was somehow harsh, because only the VAR correctly spotted the handball.

The dick.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

It’ll be the end of me being a ST holder at the Amex if this is the case.

I’ve seen a few people talk about how brilliantly it worked during the World Cup. Whilst it’s true there was a marked improvement during the WC it’s important to remember they had an entire team of officials there to review numerous camera angles for every decision so they could decide quickly. Brighton v Burnley won’t get that. Did anybody remember the Liverpool v West Brom FA Cup game? That is what we’ll get.

If we have to bring it in then let’s leave it until it’s been perfected by other leagues across Europe. It’s not at that stage yet though. Earlier this year a referee awarded a penalty after he’d blown for Half Time in a Bundesliga game. The teams were in the changing rooms and a lot of the fans had gone to get a beer. Imagine something like that happening at The Amex.

VAR is a flawed concept anyway. Only incidents leading to goals can be reviewed. What happens if there is a foul on the halfway line not given, and 10 seconds later the team score? Is that leading to a goal? What about 15 seconds before, 20, 25, 30... you get the point.

Football isn’t perfect. It’s flawed, there are mistakes but I’d rather lose to the odd unfair goal like the Cardiff winner then have the entire game ruined so we can quadruple check if somebody was half an inch offside. Especially when VAR brings a whole new host of problems to the equation. Losing that spontaneous limbs of a last minute goal because you’re waiting/expecting it to go to VAR will be the final nail in the coffin for me.

With the utmost respect, we'd have 3 more points from the last 2 games alone had VAR been in place due to the offside goal at Cardiff and the offside in the lead up to the penalty against Leicester - 3 points could be huge for us come the end of the season if our current form is anything to go by.

There was research done last season to show which teams had benefited from poor refereeing decisions and which teams suffered due to them. Ourselves and Liverpool were amongst the biggest sufferers and Man Utd, unsurprisingly, gained the most points (getting them to second!) from wrong refereeing decisions. We had a bit of wiggle room last year in terms of points so we were lucky. But the reality is that poor decisions do not even out over a season and this year those poor decisions could cost us our place at the top table. So I don't see how anyone can be against the introduction of it to try and help level the playing field and improve the standard of refereeing.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

With the utmost respect, we'd have 3 more points from the last 2 games alone had VAR been in place due to the offside goal at Cardiff and the offside in the lead up to the penalty against Leicester -

- and the Groß goal incorrectly ruled out for offside, that would have made it 2-0.

 

[Easy 10]

“I’ve said for a long time that I’m an advocate of VAR,” said Hughes. “I think referees need help. In recent weeks, we’ve demanded that it’s introduced, so we can’t complain too much.

“But the guys looking at the situation are the referees that sometimes get decisions wrong on the pitch. What you’ve got to be careful with, when you’re looking at incidents in games is that if you slow it down to the nth degree, then sometimes it looks deliberate. When you play it in normal time, and Nathan’s running through at pace, there’s no way he can avoid that ball.From our point of view, it’s a valid goal and we should have won that tie.”

Asked how he would have felt if Leicester had scored the goal, Hughes admitted he would have appealed for it to be ruled out.

“Everybody claims handball,” added Hughes. “If it’s in your box, you always claim it.

“The point I’m making… Yeah, you make a valid point. Good point, well made. But at the end of the day it doesn’t make me feel any better.

“We can go round and round the houses but in our view, in the course of the game, in the flow of the game, that was just an incident where the ball was bouncing around and it was coming off people’s bodies, it broke nicely for us and the ball ends up in the net. In our view it should have been goal. There’ll be two views, I’m sure.”


Good to know that VARS will finally stop all the moaning about decisions, innit.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

It really doesn't. This isn't X-Factor, we don't get to vote on the decision, so why do we have a "right" to view it while its being made ? Its simply down to the officials to make the call. By showing it on the giant screen while they decide, all you're going to do is inflame the situation with one set of supporters who end up on the wrong end of the call. And some of those calls will be mighty marginal, so there's always going to be one set of fans, and the manager, and the players, who end up pissed off and aggrieved at what they would deem the wrong decision being made DESPITE the ref viewing replays of it.

This is exactly why controversial / debatable incidents are never, ever replayed on the big screens right now. They'll show efforts on goal and near-misses, but you'll never see a disallowed goal, or a red card decision, or an offside goal replayed, because it'll just cause more grief and aggravation for the officials.

We're stuck with VAR now, its coming. No need to make it even MORE controversial than it already is by showing it to 30,000 biased, passionate, whipped-up pissed off punters. Just let the refs get on with making the decision as best they can, without simultaneously having all that grief raining down on them from the stands.

All you're really saying is that we're the issue, not VAR

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

- and the Groß goal incorrectly ruled out for offside, that would have made it 2-0.

True! Hadn't thought of that. But thanks for helping to solidify my point.

 

[Easy 10]

All you're really saying is that we're the issue, not VAR

We're certainly part of the issue, or at least those who are calling to see what the referee is seeing when reviewing a decision through VAR are.

Its ok with a line call. We already get to see the goal-line technology review after its been made, and thats fine. In cricket they get to see the runouts etc. If its a binary yes/no call, then there's no argument. But if you start showing replays to the whole stadium of red card decisions, fouls that disallow goals, fouls not given that end up as goals etc etc while the ref is reviewing it, then thats another whole new can of worms.

All that would do is ramp-up and heap even more pressure on the officials. This is supposed to be helping them.

 

[The Large One]

- and the Groß goal incorrectly ruled out for offside, that would have made it 2-0.

I can only agree with that to a point.

True, Gross was through one-on-one, but by the time he had got into the area, the flag had gone up, and the whistle was blown. Schmeichel largely stopped playing - or rather, he didn't make much of an effort to stop it.

Would Gross have scored? Maybe, but not definitely.

So what could have happened under VAR? The only possible remedy is for the ref to play on - effectively ignoring the flag - and then pull it back once the play had run its course. But what a farce that would have been.

 

[AZ Gull]

So what could have happened under VAR? The only possible remedy is for the ref to play on - effectively ignoring the flag - and then pull it back once the play had run its course. But what a farce that would have been.

Presumably, assistant referees will be given the same instruction as at the World Cup - World Cup 2018: Assistant refs to keep flag down for tight offside calls

 

[Creaky]

We're certainly part of the issue, or at least those who are calling to see what the referee is seeing when reviewing a decision through VAR are.

Its ok with a line call. We already get to see the goal-line technology review after its been made, and thats fine. In cricket they get to see the runouts etc. If its a binary yes/no call, then there's no argument. But if you start showing replays to the whole stadium of red card decisions, fouls that disallow goals, fouls not given that end up as goals etc etc while the ref is reviewing it, then thats another whole new can of worms.

All that would do is ramp-up and heap even more pressure on the officials. This is supposed to be helping them.

Works ok in Rugby League, maybe their refs have stronger characters - certainly gets the crowd going

In RL the ref doesn’t review the footage - another ref does that AND makes any decision. In effect the on-field ref hands any decision making over to the video ref.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I can only agree with that to a point.

True, Gross was through one-on-one, but by the time he had got into the area, the flag had gone up, and the whistle was blown. Schmeichel largely stopped playing - or rather, he didn't make much of an effort to stop it.

Would Gross have scored? Maybe, but not definitely.

So what could have happened under VAR? The only possible remedy is for the ref to play on - effectively ignoring the flag - and then pull it back once the play had run its course. But what a farce that would have been.

AZ has beaten me to it /\/\

As per the WC the instruction would be for the linesman to keep his flag down, until the incident had played out, and THEN indicate to the ref that there was a borderline offside.

It is the only workable procedure for such incidents, and it would work fine, so long as the officials do restrict that 'non-flagging' to genuinely tight calls. If they apply it when it is plainly obviously offside, then it would become rather silly.

 

[Easy 10]

So what could have happened under VAR? The only possible remedy is for the ref to play on - effectively ignoring the flag - and then pull it back once the play had run its course. But what a farce that would have been.

Its a really decent point. Schmeical stopped playing once the flag had gone up and the ref had whistled, but Gross still stuck it away a second or two later for the sake of it more than anything else.

So in cases like this, does VAR mean you no longer play to the whistle ?? The ref could stop the game incorrectly for offside in the opinion of the VAR. Someone could stick the ball away, as Gross did. The ref initially disallows the goal, but then on review sees that he WAS in fact onside, changes his mind and awards the goal.

Schmeical then goes even more apeshit as he'd stopped playing when the flag went up. Blimey, that'd be fun to sort out.

I guess if that happens, even if the VAR can see that Gross had been played a yard onside, he just keeps quiet about it. Too much trouble otherwise.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Its a really decent point. Schmeical stopped playing once the flag had gone up and the ref had whistled, but Gross still stuck it away a second or two later for the sake of it more than anything else.

So in cases like this, does VAR mean you no longer play to the whistle ?? The ref could stop the game incorrectly for offside in the opinion of the VAR. Someone could stick the ball away, as Gross did. The ref initially disallows the goal, but then on review sees that he WAS in fact onside, changes his mind and awards the goal.

Schmeical then goes even more apeshit as he'd stopped playing when the flag went up. Blimey, that'd be fun to sort out.

I guess if that happens, even if the VAR can see that Gross had been played a yard onside, he just keeps quiet about it. Too much trouble otherwise.

The answers above describe the correct process.

What you have suggested here, would never happen. If the ref blows to stop play, no subsequent goal could ever stand, whatever the VAR shows.

 

[Easy 10]

If the ref blows to stop play, no subsequent goal could ever stand, whatever the VAR shows.

So once the ref has blown for offside, whether its right or wrong, there can't be a review.

Didn't know that.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

We're certainly part of the issue, or at least those who are calling to see what the referee is seeing when reviewing a decision through VAR are.

Its ok with a line call. We already get to see the goal-line technology review after its been made, and thats fine. In cricket they get to see the runouts etc. If its a binary yes/no call, then there's no argument. But if you start showing replays to the whole stadium of red card decisions, fouls that disallow goals, fouls not given that end up as goals etc etc while the ref is reviewing it, then thats another whole new can of worms.

All that would do is ramp-up and heap even more pressure on the officials. This is supposed to be helping them.

I agree. I think all you'd need is a sign up on the screen that says "Review in progress" or something like that. It's to inform paying customers that a decision is being made so that there's no lull for them, rather than to allow them/us a view of the actual incident.