[Albion] VAR net score so far

[lawros left foot]

I'm not sure you can cite a penalty that wasn't awarded by the referee or VAR as 'should have been a penalty'.

I think the only person who thought it wasn’t a pen, was the VAR ref, even two Palace fans I’ve spoken to, thought they got away with one. There was also, more contentious I know, Bentekes elbow on Dunk.

 

[Stat Brother]

I think the only person who thought it wasn’t a pen, was the VAR ref, even two Palace fans I’ve spoken to, thought they got away with one. There was also, more contentious I know, Bentekes elbow on Dunk.

But you're adding conjecture into VAR decisions and our net score so far.

A decision not given, twice, just takes us back to the halcyon days of May when we could 'if but's and maybe' our way through the after match post mortem.

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

Obvious wasnt a penalty because was looked at by VAR. but is there footage of the incident. All nearby albion players appealed and looked handball from lower east

This was a time where VAR convinced me it was right. I was watching on TV and was convinced it was a handball. Slow motion showed that the angle was incredibly deceiving and it hit his waist and not his hand.

Other than that, f*ck VAR.

 

[Frankie]

I actually thought VAR was there to correct the linesman and referees obvious howlers and not to be used everytime a goal is scored, how can 3cm for example in Burns case be described as a obvious howler by the linesman, it seems that VAR is actually operating outside its original rules or have I misinterpreted those rules set out?

 

[pb21]

Obvious wasnt a penalty because was looked at by VAR. but is there footage of the incident. All nearby albion players appealed and looked handball from lower east

Are you talking about the VAR handball check on Saturday? Certainly looked handball from WSU, would like to see this again too, maybe they decided it wasn't technically a foul.

 

[pb21]

I actually thought VAR was there to correct the linesman and referees obvious howlers and not to be used everytime a goal is scored, how can 3cm for example in Burns case be described as a obvious howler by the linesman, it seems that VAR is actually operating outside its original rules or have I misinterpreted those rules set out?

All goals scored in the Premier League will automatically be checked by the Video Assistant Referee (VAR).

They will check for any infringements by the attacking team in the attacking possession phase that led to the goal.

For factual decisions such as offside or the ball being out of play, the VAR will inform the referee, who will overturn any award of a goal.

For subjective decisions such as a foul or a handball, VAR can be used to overturn if a “clear and obvious error” has been identified.

https://www.premierleague.com/VAR/goal-decisions-explained

The clear and obvious thing doesn't apply to offside checks, although it should do IMO.

 

[Frankie]

https://www.premierleague.com/VAR/goal-decisions-explained

The clear and obvious thing doesn't apply to offside checks, although it should do IMO.

Ah I see, thanks for that, still absolute gubbins though, I think no matter who you support it's pretty clear it's just ruining the game of football now.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

What I have found very interesting is that VAR very quickly seems to be having minimal impact on the result. At the start of the season there was a lot of fuss about how having a goal disallowed had a big impact on the momentum of the match, with one side feeling down and the other getting confidence.

That seems to have almost completely gone now. Sheffield United twice thought they had extended their lead, but there was no comeback from us. After Burns disallowed goal we arguably played better than before, and got our deserved second. Palace had one ruled out against saints but got their goal a short while after.

I think the sports psychologists have done their job (maybe not at wolves), and it was noticeable that Potter and burns both brushed off the disallowed goal in interviews after and didn't complain at all about it. They have definitely worked at coping with this.

In that context this +/- probably doesn't matter that much

To be honest, if they were still playing that game now we'd still have nil

 

[Stat Brother]

To be honest, if they were still playing that game now we'd still have nil

and be grateful.

Yet v Bournemouth I'm amazed it was only 2.


Gotta love this season.

 

[Bob!]

https://www.premierleague.com/VAR/goal-decisions-explained

The clear and obvious thing doesn't apply to offside checks, although it should do IMO.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50944416

VAR 'should not be too forensic' - football law-makers set to issue guidance

Football's law-makers say the video assistant referee system should not be "too forensic" when it comes to offsides - and should only be used to reverse "clear and obvious" errors.

Five goals in the Premier League were ruled out at the weekend for marginal offsides, leading some managers and players to criticise VAR.

Lukas Brud, general secretary of the International Football Association Board, said: "With VAR we see some things that are going in a direction that we may need to re-adjust."

He said the body would reissue guidance on VAR's use after its annual general meeting in February.

"If you spend multiple minutes trying to identify whether it is offside or not, then it's not clear and obvious and the original decision should stand," he said.

He added: "What we really need to stress is that 'clear and obvious' applies to every single situation that is being reviewed by the VAR or the referee.

"In theory, 1mm offside is offside, but if a decision is taken that a player is not offside and the VAR is trying to identify through looking at five, six, seven, 10, 12 cameras whether or not it was offside, then the original decision should stand.

"This is the problem. People are trying to be too forensic. We are not looking to make a better decision, we are trying to get rid of the clear and obvious mistakes.

"If video evidence shows that a player was in an offside position, he was offside full stop. If it's not obvious, then the decision cannot be changed, you stay with the original decision.

"We will be communicating to all competitions that are using VAR some updates in the coming weeks, because we are observing some developments that are not particularly the way they should be."

'Something has to change'
Meanwhile, former top-flight referee Mark Halsey told BBC Radio 5 Live that the Premier League needs to change its use of VAR next season.

"You cannot change it halfway through a season but something has to change at the end of the season and it has to involve players and fans," he said. "VAR is here to stay and, used correctly, it shouldn't be a problem."

Halsey, who officiated in the Premier League from 1999 to 2013, said referees' body PGMOL was "not using it correctly" compared with other countries that have VAR.

"Everywhere else is going to the pitchside monitor and that is not happening [here]," he said.

Marginal offsides are causing particular consternation, with Sheffield United boss Chris Wilder saying VAR was "not helping the game".

Some fans have been singing "it's not football any more" at matches.

Another former Premier League official, Dermot Gallagher, told BBC Radio 5 Live the recent examples had shown "how tight the margins are".

"The technology will get better and the operatives will get better. We've got to allow it a bit of wriggle room. It was never going to be perfect," he said.

"It's frustrating. I think people will get more used to it, people will tinker with the product a little bit and say, 'If we do this it will make it better', and I think it's a combination and with that right combination we will eventually get the right cocktail."

 

[banjo]

(Anyone able time verify our +6?)


Brighton +6
Man United +3
Southampton +3
Palace +2
Leicester City +2
Bournemouth +1
Burnley +1
Newcastle +1
Watford +1
Liverpool 0
Man City 0
Spurs 0
Arsenal -1
Villa -1
Everton -1
Chelsea -2
Norwich -3
West Ham -3
Wolves -4
Sheff Utd -5

I bloody love VAR.

 

[GT49er]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50944416

VAR 'should not be too forensic' - football law-makers set to issue guidance

Football's law-makers say the video assistant referee system should not be "too forensic" when it comes to offsides - and should only be used to reverse "clear and obvious" errors.

Five goals in the Premier League were ruled out at the weekend for marginal offsides, leading some managers and players to criticise VAR.

Lukas Brud, general secretary of the International Football Association Board, said: "With VAR we see some things that are going in a direction that we may need to re-adjust."

He said the body would reissue guidance on VAR's use after its annual general meeting in February.

"If you spend multiple minutes trying to identify whether it is offside or not, then it's not clear and obvious and the original decision should stand," he said.

He added: "What we really need to stress is that 'clear and obvious' applies to every single situation that is being reviewed by the VAR or the referee.

"In theory, 1mm offside is offside, but if a decision is taken that a player is not offside and the VAR is trying to identify through looking at five, six, seven, 10, 12 cameras whether or not it was offside, then the original decision should stand.

"This is the problem. People are trying to be too forensic. We are not looking to make a better decision, we are trying to get rid of the clear and obvious mistakes.

"If video evidence shows that a player was in an offside position, he was offside full stop. If it's not obvious, then the decision cannot be changed, you stay with the original decision.

"We will be communicating to all competitions that are using VAR some updates in the coming weeks, because we are observing some developments that are not particularly the way they should be."

'Something has to change'
Meanwhile, former top-flight referee Mark Halsey told BBC Radio 5 Live that the Premier League needs to change its use of VAR next season.

"You cannot change it halfway through a season but something has to change at the end of the season and it has to involve players and fans," he said. "VAR is here to stay and, used correctly, it shouldn't be a problem."

Halsey, who officiated in the Premier League from 1999 to 2013, said referees' body PGMOL was "not using it correctly" compared with other countries that have VAR.

"Everywhere else is going to the pitchside monitor and that is not happening [here]," he said.

Marginal offsides are causing particular consternation, with Sheffield United boss Chris Wilder saying VAR was "not helping the game".

Some fans have been singing "it's not football any more" at matches.

Another former Premier League official, Dermot Gallagher, told BBC Radio 5 Live the recent examples had shown "how tight the margins are".

"The technology will get better and the operatives will get better. We've got to allow it a bit of wriggle room. It was never going to be perfect," he said.

"It's frustrating. I think people will get more used to it, people will tinker with the product a little bit and say, 'If we do this it will make it better', and I think it's a combination and with that right combination we will eventually get the right cocktail."

Blimey - some common sense from the Football authorities. Until it got to Dermot Gallagher, of course!

 

[Pavilionaire]

So now they've admitted it's been misused and VAR has gone beyond its "clear and obvious" remit, do they:

a) carry on 'as is' til the end of the season, so the rules are the same throughout, or
b) make the change now?

What a shambles.

 

[West Upper Seagull]

I remain firmly in favour of VAR, it just needs the authorities to change the rules in how it’s used, i.e. if it isn’t clear and obvious without drawing lines then you stick with the refs decision. I remain in favour because of the outrageous injustice we suffered away at Cardiff last season with their blatantly offside winner - that could have been the difference that sent us down !

 

[Weststander]

I remain firmly in favour of VAR, it just needs the authorities to change the rules in how it’s used, i.e. if it isn’t clear and obvious without drawing lines then you stick with the refs decision. I remain in favour because of the outrageous injustice we suffered away at Cardiff last season with their blatantly offside winner - that could have been the difference that sent us down !

Same here.

Bits to change eg the minutes lost whilst checks being made, but it’s already ironing out a raft of otherwise incredible and costly gaffs from awful refs such as Atkinson and Friend. Cardiff didn’t deserve 3 points, but incompetent officials handed them two.

Luck on officiating errors did not used to even itself out. After the 2017/18 season, independent analysts looked at key officiating errors in the season and we were big net losers, costing us several league places and £m’s in prize money.

 

[Daddies_Sauce]

https://twitter.com/mrjakehumphrey/status/1210593921333682178 (hope this works) love the ref explaining his decisions, and explaining using the available screen.

 

[Jim in the West]

For me, the biggest drawback of VAR is that you can no longer spontaneously celebrate a goal. The most important part of the fan experience has been ruined. I heard the guys on MOTD2 saying that, pre-VAR, officials got over 95% of decisions correct. In seeking to turn excellence into perfection we are ruining the game. And officials are NOT getting better at using VAR....every week some new issue seems to crop up. I was on the fence about VAR at the beginning of the season, but now I’m 100% against.

 

[Acker79]

For me, the biggest drawback of VAR is that you can no longer spontaneously celebrate a goal.

People keep saying this, and yet goals continue to be celebrated.

Before VAR, the ball goes in the net and people would go nuts. Glimpse to the lino and continue celebrating. The celebrations die down as the teams line up to take kick off.

Since VAR, the ball goes in the net and people would go nuts. Glimpse to the lino and continue celebrating. The celebrations die down as the teams line up to take kick off. Then kick off is held up for the VAR check. It's at this point, when people have already stopped celebrating that they realise there is something amiss.

Some people sat near me kept ranting during the West Ham and Southampton matches, proclaiming they wouldn't celebrate another goal. In fact it wasn't even worth coming any more. They keep coming to games and they keep celebrating goals.

 

[blue-shifted]

Some people sat near me kept ranting during the West Ham and Southampton matches, proclaiming they wouldn't celebrate another goal. In fact it wasn't even worth coming any more. They keep coming to games and they keep celebrating goals.

But maybe they are holding back a little more than they once did

 

[Acker79]

But maybe they are holding back a little more than they once did

You wouldn't think it to see them celebrate with the same apparent fervour as ever.