[Football] VAR gives Grimsby a red card

[AZ Gull]

Not sure it has anything to do with technology other than tv cameras. GLT is completely different as there are fixed sensors around the ground to identify when the ball crosses the line. VAR is just about watching replays.

I was merely making the analogy that some FA Cup fixtures would employ goal line technology, and some wouldn't.

Anyway, according to this article in the Manchester Evening News today:-

...As it stands, only Premier League stadiums are capable of hosting VAR due to the financial expense of the technology.

 

[BensGrandad]

Neither do I. But what are the actual regulations? If the VAR ref draws the ref's attention to something, does the ref. have to go with the VAR ref. if, after looking at the replay, he doesn't agree with the VAR ref?

Is that not the whole point of VAR to rectify refs possible mistakes or misses. I believe that the VAR should be the final decision.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

I believe that the VAR should be the final decision.

If you go down that road you start to ask if we even need on-field officials at all...

 

[BensGrandad]

If you go down that road you start to ask if we even need on-field officials at all...

Not really as there will be very few VAR decisions reversed unless the ref is useless like The Complete And Utter Shyster. VAR has a better view of an incident from different angles and with no players in their line of sight.

 

[drew]

That's how it worked in the World Cup, but its not how it worked today. It looks like today the ref got a call in his ear to tell him to change his decision. Have a look at Burnley's first penalty decision here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46706808. Same at United where the ref waited for the video ref to make a decision.

My understanding is that there the VAR can tell the ref he got it wrong or he can tell him that he might want to review the decision. It may be in the examples you have given the ref accepted the description given by the VAR. If he hadn't, he could review the footage.

 

[Sheebo]

Congratulations to PaLLLLLLLace. Beating Grimsby 1-0 at home, playing against 10 men for 88 minutes and finally scoring in the 86th minute.

Kudos.

Laughable - with Zaha etc all playing too! Not very good against 10 men are they...

 

[Saunders]

That's how it worked in the World Cup, but its not how it worked today. It looks like today the ref got a call in his ear to tell him to change his decision. Have a look at Burnley's first penalty decision here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46706808. Same at United where the ref waited for the video ref to make a decision.

That happened in the world cup too maybe you have a short memory for that, but the ultimate ending decision is with the referee.

 

[Easy 10]

All set up for another EPIC run to the Final like in 1990, when they conquered the combined might of

Portsmouth (h)
Huddersfield (h)
Rochdale (h)
Cambridge (a)

before Liverpool chucked the semi. Talk about a bye to the Final. History to repeat ?

 

[spence]

What a joke. How to ruin football.

https://twitter.com/Shakey20188?ref...o/iframe/twitter.min.html#1081534513572970498

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

My understanding is that there the VAR can tell the ref he got it wrong or he can tell him that he might want to review the decision. It may be in the examples you have given the ref accepted the description given by the VAR. If he hadn't, he could review the footage.

That happened in the world cup too maybe you have a short memory for that, but the ultimate ending decision is with the referee.

In the World Cup, every single time the VAR ref suggested a decision should be changed, the referee went to the screen at the side of the pitch, reviewed the footage and made his own decision. Even when it was a three-yard offside or blatant handball.

Yesterday, every single time the VAR ref intervened he made the decision while the on-field ref waited for it to be made. At United the ref waited on the pitch for 2 or 3 minutes, reviewing no footage before the VAR ref told him it was a pen. At Palace the VAR ref told the on-field ref to upgrade the yellow card to a red, which he did without question. At Burnley the ref stopped the penalty-taker in his run-up when the call came in.

Definitely different situations at play.

 

[brightn'ove]

Yes, same idea. No level playing fields any more.

But both teams get the benefit of the technology, and both lose the benefit of the technology if they play at a ground with/without it.

 

[brightn'ove]

In the World Cup, every single time the VAR ref suggested a decision should be changed, the referee went to the screen at the side of the pitch, reviewed the footage and made his own decision. Even when it was a three-yard offside or blatant handball.

Yesterday, every single time the VAR ref intervened he made the decision while the on-field ref waited for it to be made. At United the ref waited on the pitch for 2 or 3 minutes, reviewing no footage before the VAR ref told him it was a pen. At Palace the VAR ref told the on-field ref to upgrade the yellow card to a red, which he did without question. At Burnley the ref stopped the penalty-taker in his run-up when the call came in.

Definitely different situations at play.

I think in these situations the ref has accepted the VAR's additional information and used that to change the decision. They don't necessarily need to review the footage if they accept additional information if they already saw the incident but couldn't see exactly what happened.

With offsides, they never review the footage.

 

[Bodian]

Will it be used to look for encroachment at the penalties they have just awarded? Should be easy to spot.

Stopping a player in his run-up to the penalty for an earlier offside is just nonsense isn't it. Did they explain it to the fans - I think I would have been totally baffled!

 

[LamieRobertson]

It's only really installed at Premier clubs. I suspect Forest may have assumed that would include Chelsea, but they were wrong.

Watching Morata on MOTD using his hands to draw the outline of a tv would suggest it wasn't just the Forest players who thought it was in use

 

[drew]

In the World Cup, every single time the VAR ref suggested a decision should be changed, the referee went to the screen at the side of the pitch, reviewed the footage and made his own decision. Even when it was a three-yard offside or blatant handball.

Yesterday, every single time the VAR ref intervened he made the decision while the on-field ref waited for it to be made. At United the ref waited on the pitch for 2 or 3 minutes, reviewing no footage before the VAR ref told him it was a pen. At Palace the VAR ref told the on-field ref to upgrade the yellow card to a red, which he did without question. At Burnley the ref stopped the penalty-taker in his run-up when the call came in.

Definitely different situations at play.

But from what happened yesterday you've come to the conclusion that they are operating the system differently to the world cup. The ref has accepted what the VAR has advised him and changed his decision based on that.

 

[drew]

Will it be used to look for encroachment at the penalties they have just awarded? Should be easy to spot.

Stopping a player in his run-up to the penalty for an earlier offside is just nonsense isn't it. Did they explain it to the fans - I think I would have been totally baffled!

Should be but how hard is if it for 3 on field officials (and why not include the 4th official as well) to spot when players encroach. For example, the 4th official could quite easily move level with the edge of the penalty area, the ref level with the ball and the lino level with the goaline (or reverse the positions of the lino and 4th official depending on what end the penalty is.)

 

[Poojah]

As a Grimsby fan I was at Selhurst yesterday and was intrigued how VAR would play out ‘in the flesh’. The whole thing was quite odd; the ref gave a yellow which at first glance looked about the right decision before 20 seconds later doing that little box signal with his hands and produced a red card. No review on the TV monitor as I was expecting as per the World Cup - it was all very sudden and unexpected.

By all accounts it seems to have been the correct decision; it was a bad challenge. However what I don’t like about VAR is that it is a very black and white system and discounts context and takes discretion away from the referee. The offence happened 90 seconds into the game and you’ve got a League Two team playing away at a Premier League side - with 6,000 Town fans sat watching proudly in the Arthur Wait stand. There are going to be nerves and adrenalin flowing.

Should any of that matter? Should a bad challenge be a red card regardless of how and when it occurs? Maybe it should, and maybe I’d feel differently if the decision was the other way round, but yesterday it spoiled an already tricky tie by turning it into the Alamo.

For what it’s worth, Palace were poor. Yes, if you look at the stats they had 30 odd shots and about 80% possession but what looked like a fairly strong line up failed to ooze the class you normally see from a top flight side when you have the rare opportunity to see one in person. I was quite looking forward to seeing Zaha play but my goodness he was gash - completely outdone by a central midfielder playing at right back (following Fox’s sending off, we didn’t have a single player in our back three or four playing in his natural position due to injuries / suspension).

 

[Bodian]

As a Grimsby fan I was at Selhurst yesterday and was intrigued how VAR would play out ‘in the flesh’. The whole thing was quite odd; the ref gave a yellow which at first glance looked about the right decision before 20 seconds later doing that little box signal with his hands and produced a red card. No review on the TV monitor as I was expecting as per the World Cup - it was all very sudden and unexpected.

By all accounts it seems to have been the correct decision; it was a bad challenge. However what I don’t like about VAR is that it is a very black and white system and discounts context and takes discretion away from the referee. The offence happened 90 seconds into the game and you’ve got a League Two team playing away at a Premier League side - with 6,000 Town fans sat watching proudly in the Arthur Wait stand. There are going to be nerves and adrenalin flowing.

Should any of that matter? Should a bad challenge be a red card regardless of how and when it occurs? Maybe it should, and maybe I’d feel differently if the decision was the other way round, but yesterday it spoiled an already tricky tie by turning it into the Alamo.

For what it’s worth, Palace were poor. Yes, if you look at the stats they had 30 odd shots and about 80% possession but what looked like a fairly strong line up failed to ooze the class you normally see from a top flight side when you have the rare opportunity to see one in person. I was quite looking forward to seeing Zaha play but my goodness he was gash - completely outdone by a central midfielder playing at right back (following Fox’s sending off, we didn’t have a single player in our back three or four playing in his natural position due to injuries / suspension).

We were all willing you to hold on for a replay, or even nick a win. We've had enough experience of red cards changing games this year to appreciate exactly what you're saying.

 

[Poojah]

We were all willing you to hold on for a replay, or even nick a win. We've had enough experience of red cards changing games this year to appreciate exactly what you're saying.

It was gutting, not only because the late goal cost us the best part of £250k for the replay (which to us is massive) but because the players truly deserved it. Still, a very proud and enjoyable day out In the big smoke with 6,000 of your brethren - it’s what it’s all about for me.

Here’s hoping we make it to the third round next year for a chance to visit the Amex - a ground I really want to do!

 

[Weststander]

Will it be used to look for encroachment at the penalties they have just awarded? Should be easy to spot.

Stopping a player in his run-up to the penalty for an earlier offside is just nonsense isn't it. Did they explain it to the fans - I think I would have been totally baffled!

Or goalies way off their line, blatantly cheating at pens.