[Football] VAR given thumbs down by fans for Premier League study

[Guinness Boy]

Rubbish - the VAR clearly showed that not all of the bear was inside the wood at the exact moment of evacuation.






........... and frankly that's a better use of VAR than the one we've suffered at the football.

Not a bad analogy for VAR.

Imagine having a mole at the counter and not being allowed to release the bomb doors or, indeed, even lock the Kermit, until your wife determines by use of rulers, lines and smartphone evidence that the toilet seat is correctly affixed, that the loo roll is in it's holder and is the precise brand and thickness that she ordered from Tesco and that you didn't block one of the children in your run up the stairs to release your chocolate hostage.

 

[Fungus]

"Earlier this year, the president of Fifa, Gianni Infantino, even said it was good for the game. “Now if there is a doubt you check, you wait, you see and that’s the adrenaline that makes football how it is: the waiting for a result”.

Get f*cked mate. The officials can't use it properly so bloody bin it.

His comment shows just how out of touch with the game some of these people are.

 

[AmexRuislip]

It's shit.
It's here to stay.
Piss all we can do about it.

Enough about the royal family, what about VAR

 

[Audax]

We've all seen that VAR has been implemented poorly in the EPL. I don't necessarily agree that means it should be binned - I still think as a concept it's viable, it just needs better implementation across the board.

Questions, if anyone knows the answers:

- Have any of the other football leagues around the world tried differing implementations?
- If so, how have the fans for those leagues reacted?
- And how have players and managers reacted?

I mean ... personally, I thought the way VAR was run at the last world cup was actually fairly decent from memory. Yes, there were still a few oddball decisions and some clear teething issues to resolve, but generally speaking it looked and felt like it was achieving what it was meant to. In particular, there was a reasonably consistently applied approach to awarding penalties for defenders grabbing attackers in the box.

So the big question:

Is VAR in the EPL a fundamental VAR problem, or is it actually more accurately an EPL implementation problem?

I tend to think it may be the latter.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I don't have a problem with VAR, I have a problem with the use of VAR. I would:

1) Only use it for 'clear and obvious' errors (as we were originally promised, I seem to recall). If it isn't clear and/or obvious, stick with the on-field decision.
2) Get rid of the '1 pixel' offside rule, replace with a 10cm margin of error, as I understand happens in other leagues in Europe - i.e. stick with the on-field decision to award a goal unless the offside is more than 10cm, rather that more than 1 pixel.

I honestly think VAR can be good, it just needs to be used properly, not for relentlessly triple-checking every decision. Referees and Linos need to be forced to make a decision, which is then only overturned if they have obviously screwed up. Too often this season, officials have not made a decision, because they know VAR will scrutinise things anyway.

They already claim they are only using it to overturn clear and obvious errors. The problem is that what’s obvious to one person is not to another. That’s football. It’s a game of opinions. The whole concept of VAR is anti football for this reason.

 

[AmexRuislip]

Anyone fancy playing spot the ball VAR styleeee.....

 

[Greg Bobkin]

One of the issues with VAR is that it's still got a human (referee) making subjective decisions at the end of it.

Another issue is that fans and players don't have a clue what's going on during the checking process, which is frustrating, confusing and doesn't help win over any sceptics.

The whole thing was rushed through without any form of testing or evaluation of it. As a result, it's become a complete ballache and creates more issues than it actually resolves.

I'm not sure I'd get rid completely, but the whole process needs an overhaul.

 

[Seasidesage]

I think the results of that survey should be setting alarm bells off at all levels of the governance of the game. FSF is basically made up of old farts like me who have been watching and going to football for ever. If 40% of those people are re-evaluating going to the game due to VAR, what are the part time supporter? The young? The sponsors and the numerous other vital elements but maybe not fully committed people thinking? They risk losing the next generation plus the level of interest that funds the whole business of football. Once gone they may never be recovered especially when there is so much else to occupy leisure time now.

 

[Brovion]

"Earlier this year, the president of Fifa, Gianni Infantino, even said it was good for the game. “Now if there is a doubt you check, you wait, you see and that’s the adrenaline that makes football how it is: the waiting for a result”.

Get f*cked mate. The officials can't use it properly so bloody bin it.

Yeah, I saw that, couldn't believe it. How long should we 'wait for a result'? A minute? Five minutes? Until Christmas?

I can only speak for myself but I have lost all interest in watching football, and yes it is mainly because of VAR. (Although the handball, offside and non-flagging linesman rules have also played a major part). I didn't watch a single Brighton game on TV last year despite being a SKY and BT Sports subscriber. I look for our results (after waiting a suitable period after the final whistle as Senor Infantino suggests) and if we've won I feel happy. End of engagement.

EDIT; Single live game that is. I watched MoTD highlights if we'd won and a couple of games I recorded and watched through on fast-forward (without knowing the result) to see the goals.

 

[father_and_son]

Well, that's a hope - but still a pretty forlorn one, I reckon.

This. Never going to be binned off. At best they will fiddle with how it's used but too many people are too invested in it to admit defeat.


Just enforce the "clear & obvious" part of how it was sold to us and it will be infinitely better. Stop spending 5 minutes looking at things from every angle and in super-slo-mo (other than for actually assessing after the game how sh1t some 'professional' referees are!)

 

[The red pepper kid]

I think it has shown in the EFL during the playoffs that it isn't VAR that's the problem, its the referees. These referees who aren't fit to call a game also tend to be awful decision makers and poor at using technology. Leave it to the refs again, and the game will die due to injustices and fans getting just as sick of refs as they do VAR.

crikey we wont have a game without refs. all the time they are prone to death threats we wont have good refs- why would you do it ?
Junior level i have seen junior refs abused by big burly parents - who should be ashamed of themselves - and probably are when the heat of the moment disappears.
VAR is dreadful when it rules against you !
Life is dreadful ? isnt it

 

[father_and_son]

That's the problem isn't it? The PGMOL (and Dermot Gallagher over and over again on Refwatch on SSN) insist that even a millimetre is clear and obvious offside. It is, and is therefore taken as an error by the referee. And that's what they can't get - because it's so marginal, the error is not clear and obvious.

Maybe they need another person in the VAR bunker, not a referee; perhaps an ex-player - whose job would be to tell the VAR which decisions are clear and obvious enough to be reviewed - and if the review isn't sanctioned the VAR does nothing.

The second you have to start drawing lines on the screen... it's not clear and obvious - don't need a ex-player for that.

If it's not clear and obvious, on-pitch decision stands (rightly or wrongly).


I'd advocate a timer. VAR signals to the ref a review is taking place and it beeps on his watch just like the goal-line tech does. Then, after exactly 10 seconds, if VAR doesn't have evidence to overturn the decision and slaps the big red "you-were-wrong" button, the ref's wristband beeps again to continue and the mic feed from the bunker is cut and VAR goes back to "live" play and the review is abandoned. If they couldn't see it in that time... wasn't obvious.

 

[Pint of Ale and a Burger]

I think VAR is shite and I would be happy to see it binned in its current form.
My main complaints are,

Offsides by ridiculous small margins such as toe,nose,knee,etc.

Offsides from dead all situations where I'm not convinced the photo they are using to make their desicion is the actual moment the ball was kicked.

Also the small margins involved don't take Into account that there must be a small margin of error in the technology itself.

Inconsistencies in what is and isn't checked by VAR during a match.

A general lack of communication from the ref/VAR team and the fans/TV audience as to what is going on during checks and desicions.

But the worst one is the ruining of that magical ment most of us go to footy for A GOAL.
Whether it's the ecstasy of seeing your own team get one in the onion bag or that numbing,sinking feeling if the opposition score,VAR ruins all that.

Its a shame because I saw VAR used during the women's world cup and it worked really well.
But one of the key parts of VAR when originally proposed was the ref using the pitchside monitors which the refs did do during the women's world cup.
The refs in the premier League chose not to bother to use the pitchside monitors which in my opinion is a key part of the desicion process.
It also proves to me that even if they fine tuned the rules to iron out all the other issues then the refs will just do there own thing and cock it all up anyway.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I don't have a problem with VAR, I have a problem with the use of VAR. I would:

1) Only use it for 'clear and obvious' errors (as we were originally promised, I seem to recall). If it isn't clear and/or obvious, stick with the on-field decision.
2) Get rid of the '1 pixel' offside rule, replace with a 10cm margin of error, as I understand happens in other leagues in Europe - i.e. stick with the on-field decision to award a goal unless the offside is more than 10cm, rather that more than 1 pixel.

I honestly think VAR can be good, it just needs to be used properly, not for relentlessly triple-checking every decision. Referees and Linos need to be forced to make a decision, which is then only overturned if they have obviously screwed up. Too often this season, officials have not made a decision, because they know VAR will scrutinise things anyway.

This. Plus 20 seconds for a VAR check and if they can't decide, leave it to the ref.

I would aslo add that those who would rather lose points and be relegated owing to an egregious refereeing error than put up with any form of VAR remind me of the religious zealots who would rather kill their own child than allow the child to step away from the family faith.

 

[zefarelly]

Its cack, a massive fail.

as we've discussed before and generally agree we need a massive overhaul and upgrade in officials.

a 4th official pitchside with video should be mandatory, crefs have radios. and all the grounds have big screens for replays.

a player seeing his pathetic dive on a massive screen in front of 30 000 + people may make them change their ways also.

 

[GT49er]

The second you have to start drawing lines on the screen... it's not clear and obvious - don't need a ex-player for that.
If it's not clear and obvious, on-pitch decision stands (rightly or wrongly).

Whether thhe extra body is an ex-footballer or not, it doesn't matter. The fact that referees/PGMOL haven't 'got it' they need the intervention of someone whai does understand what is wanted! Basically, any situation where "I've seen them given", "Ooh, that was close - could have gone either way" or similar, then on-field decision stands, so the VAR is not given the nod to have a close look at it. No VAR check allowed.

I'd advocate a timer. VAR signals to the ref a review is taking place and it beeps on his watch just like the goal-line tech does. Then, after exactly 10 seconds, if VAR doesn't have evidence to overturn the decision and slaps the big red "you-were-wrong" button, the ref's wristband beeps again to continue and the mic feed from the bunker is cut and VAR goes back to "live" play and the review is abandoned. If they couldn't see it in that time... wasn't obvious.

Ye.s, 10 seconds would be fine

 

[Swansman]

It won't be binned off. We all wanted it at one point and it hasn't lived up to our expectations. There has been too much money spent, jobs created, and rules changed at this point to just go back to what once was (and people weren't particularly happy with that anyway). The Premier League/PGMOL do have a duty now in my opinion to make it work and make it work properly.

There are difficult things to solve like offsides (personally, I think it is fine as it is - just the rules finally being properly applied). There are easier things to solve that really shouldn't be a factor any more - time it takes to make a decision, how the decision is communicated, etc. Fingers crossed those things are sorted ASAP so we can stop talking about VAR every week.

No. I didnt, so you are wrong.

I take issue with that. I don't think we all wanted it as such, but we all thought it could be a good idea. The conversation used to go something like this:
"Wouldn't it be great if football could use video technology like other sports?"
"Yeah, it would be great. But how would you implement it though without ruining the flow of the game?"
"Yeah, good point."

They still haven't solved that issue. And our initial scepticism was before we even knew of all the rows that would be generated by the 'armpit offside' decisions.

No.

One of the issues with VAR is that it's still got a human (referee) making subjective decisions at the end of it.

Another issue is that fans and players don't have a clue what's going on during the checking process, which is frustrating, confusing and doesn't help win over any sceptics.

The whole thing was rushed through without any form of testing or evaluation of it. As a result, it's become a complete ballache and creates more issues than it actually resolves.

I'm not sure I'd get rid completely, but the whole process needs an overhaul.

My understanding is that starting in 2023/24 the PL are going to trial a system with AI making offside calls. After that, it wont be long until refs are just a memory.

I would aslo add that those who would rather lose points and be relegated owing to an egregious refereeing error than put up with any form of VAR remind me of the religious zealots who would rather kill their own child than allow the child to step away from the family faith.

In that case I would like to add that pro-VAR people remind me of the puppy raping faeces watching sliced ostring looking railway privatisation propagandists.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I don't think there is any middle ground. You either bin it off completely or it is here to stay forever.

And if it stays then every goal will be checked which means the key problem - loss of spontaneity - will be with us forever as well

I speak as someone that was in favour of VAR, but under the assumption it would only be used to for the clear and obvious stuff. I thought the parameters would be narrow and specific, and then widened gradually, but that is the complete opposite of what has actually happened.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I firmly believe PGMOL have set out to deliberately undermine it.
From day one they have been coming up with ridiculous handball/offside/penalty decisions.
Produced inconsistent decisions and dismissed penalty appeals with a 2 second check ( Welbeck/Maguire penalty appeal Old Trafford)

They like to trot out the "clear and obvious" line and yet consistently make/reverse decisions which are anything but.


Nothing wrong with the technology other than it being a threat to the role of referees in the future.

 

[Clive Walker]

I don't have a problem with VAR, I have a problem with the use of VAR. I would:

1) Only use it for 'clear and obvious' errors (as we were originally promised, I seem to recall). If it isn't clear and/or obvious, stick with the on-field decision.
2) Get rid of the '1 pixel' offside rule, replace with a 10cm margin of error, as I understand happens in other leagues in Europe - i.e. stick with the on-field decision to award a goal unless the offside is more than 10cm, rather that more than 1 pixel.

I honestly think VAR can be good, it just needs to be used properly, not for relentlessly triple-checking every decision. Referees and Linos need to be forced to make a decision, which is then only overturned if they have obviously screwed up. Too often this season, officials have not made a decision, because they know VAR will scrutinise things anyway.

what happens if the attacker is 11cms offside?