[Football] VAR fiasco at Huddersfield

[Questions]

It works brilliantly for rugby so why not football?

Ask Wales that. If the judge in the box is incompetent.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Anyone who thinks that was offside is wrong in the head, and people like you will ruin the game.

It’s interesting isn’t it. There are people who think offside is about the point of a knee and who obsess about measuring such small margins. VAR will ruin our sport.

 

[Triggaaar]

Funnily enough, people/companies/organisations that clearly have too much money, rarely seem to think they have enough. Greed cvnts the lot of 'em!

Well as I wrote 'have enough money', I was thinking the same thing, but unlike most organisations, FIFA is supposed to be non profit. Having them ruin the game for even more money is too depressing to think about.

 

[Triggaaar]

It’s interesting isn’t it. There are people who think offside is about the point of a knee and who obsess about measuring such small margins. VAR will ruin our sport.

It looks as though maybe he's a couple of inches offside - too small an amount to quibble about. Maybe when it's that close they should stay with the on-field decision (not sure what the lino thought), but then where do you draw the line (no pun intended).

But still, if the worst thing about VAR is that you give a correct decision that wouldn't have been far out if you hadn't, it's hardly a disaster is it.

 

[pauli cee]

I've always thought VAR was a shite idea for football. I still haven't changed my mind on that.

Funnily enough, I always thought it would be a good thing, but am now having serious doubts about it

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

I don't see the problem. You could see Mata's knee was offside, even if it was only very slightly. But it doesn't matter - offside is offside - you could see he was slightly offside so it's clear and obvious. But all goals are reviewed for offside, irrespective of whether it is 'clear and obvious'. The lines not working correctly initially was a shambles, but they weren't used to make the decision (straight lines were), and the right decision was made. Not sure why you think it wasn't offside (or the BT commentators for that matter). With the straight lines that were eventually shown, you can clearly see it was.

In my view it was a joke. VAR was intended to stop ridiculous decisions such as a player being two or three yards offside but because the lino wasn't up with play, not flagging.

How on earth is anyone meant to give an offside when it's a players kneecap that's offside? In real time it looked like Mata was on and it took 8 minutes in the studio for them to get anything close to conclusive footage.

 

[jimhigham]

It looks as though maybe he's a couple of inches offside - too small an amount to quibble about. Maybe when it's that close they should stay with the on-field decision (not sure what the lino thought), but then where do you draw the line

How about a very slight rule change stipulating that the player's feet must be onside at the time the ball is passed? This would provide a clearly defined point of reference that would allow some benefit for strikers in the most marginal calls (such as with the case of Mata's knee yesterday).

Just a thought. I'm not sure I care all that much.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

If the VAR system used thicker lines, and measured from the defending player, then only when the attacking player broke the thicker line would he be offside.

This would ensure it was a clear mistake by the assistant ref, and eliminate these micro offside calls.

 

[trueblue]

The problem here is the offside law, more than VAR. In its current form, a player’s stride pattern can put him offside which is completely arbitrary. It needs looking at if goals are to be reviewed and amending so that it’s closer to what was presumably the original intention: preventing goal-hangers.

 

[cunning fergus]

I can certainly see the yanks doing it. In fact, I can't see them not doing it. 'This decision is being reviewed by Crunchy Crunch, the crunchiest crunch there is'.

Doesn't FIFA have enough money already?

I wish you were wrong, but it's a pretty valid concern. We need to do our best to not accept it (any ads that creep in, rather than var).

Whether or not FIFA or other associations have enough money is a moot point, they are capitalists and therefore they will always want more.

For example when the assistant ref put up the extra time, it used to be to be a standard electronic board. Now the used one they use has the same proportions of a headboard from a king size double bed with the name of an exclusive Swiss watch manufacturer emblazoned on it. How much are they paying to sponsor that?

Evidence that in time a process that appears benign and helpful for the game will ultimately be rinsed through the capitalist machinery insitu within institutions like FIFA and the FA.

VAR is the same, those on here discussing Mata’s knee or the wobbly lines are just missing the point, VAR has the potential to wreck the game we love, and all for the self aggrandisement of those in charge who are in thrall to multinational capitalist business.

Notwithstanding the practical implications of games rolling on for up to 10-15 minutes because of VAR and all the consequences that will have for fans, the day that it’s announced in the stadium that (say following a goal), a VAR decision is pending “as sponsored by McDonalds” (with an animation of Ronnie playing keep it uppy with a Big Mac as the time clicks on) enters the game is the day I will stop going.

We are closer to that day than ever before.

 

[Bwian]

All the Liverpool WBA decisions were correct. Don't listen to Pardew.

Ignore him, he's a Spurs fan with an unhealthy obsession about Liverpool.

 

[blockhseagull]

So far I don’t see how VAR has improved the decisions.

We should be investing the money and resources in improving the standards of refs first, because at the end of the day it’s still them using the technology and I don’t trust the likes of The Complete And Utter Shyster or Pawson to get the decisions right even with technology.

The goal line technology has worked fine but now I think VAR remit is too broad to quickly, it should have been introduced for decisions like handball or where offenses took place initially and once both confidence and trust was placed in it.... then be rolled out to offside etc.

The bottom line is I don’t trust the people using it to get the right decision and at this moment the fact every decision is still being argued well after the game even with the use of VAR shows it needs modifying.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It looks as though maybe he's a couple of inches offside - too small an amount to quibble about. Maybe when it's that close they should stay with the on-field decision (not sure what the lino thought), but then where do you draw the line (no pun intended).

But still, if the worst thing about VAR is that you give a correct decision that wouldn't have been far out if you hadn't, it's hardly a disaster is it.

Yeah, similar to cricket. There are preset criteria for instance for overturning an LBW decision which means small margins are not used and which consequently preserve some respect for the role of the umpire.

 

[Triggaaar]

How about a very slight rule change stipulating that the player's feet must be onside at the time the ball is passed?

I think we'd still have a meltdown like this when someone's foot is an inch offside.

I'm not sure I care all that much.

Likewise.

 

[Triggaaar]

Whether or not FIFA or other associations have enough money is a moot point, they are capitalists and therefore they will always want more.

Sad, but true.

For example when the assistant ref put up the extra time, it used to be to be a standard electronic board. Now the used one they use has the same proportions of a headboard from a king size double bed with the name of an exclusive Swiss watch manufacturer emblazoned on it.

Do we care about that? It's not ruining the game.

Evidence that in time a process that appears benign and helpful for the game will ultimately be rinsed through the capitalist machinery insitu within institutions like FIFA and the FA.

I loath FIFA, but to be fair to them they've been in charge for some time and haven't ruined the sport itself yet.

VAR is the same, those on here discussing Mata’s knee or the wobbly lines are just missing the point, VAR has the potential to wreck the game we love, and all for the self aggrandisement of those in charge who are in thrall to multinational capitalist business.

Notwithstanding the practical implications of games rolling on for up to 10-15 minutes because of VAR and all the consequences that will have for fans, the day that it’s announced in the stadium that (say following a goal), a VAR decision is pending “as sponsored by McDonalds” (with an animation of Ronnie playing keep it uppy with a Big Mac as the time clicks on) enters the game is the day I will stop going.

We are closer to that day than ever before.

What's on the screens at the ground should be up to the club, so make sure we let them know how we feel about that. And we pay for the channels to watch footy, so support the provider that isn't stuffing adds into the match. As I say, I share your concern.

 

[BensGrandad]

At the end of the day TV coverage proved to disallow the goal was the correct decision. it may have been tight but still correct as per the laws of the game.

 

[cunning fergus]

Sad, but true.

Do we care about that? It's not ruining the game.

I loath FIFA, but to be fair to them they've been in charge for some time and haven't ruined the sport itself yet.

What's on the screens at the ground should be up to the club, so make sure we let them know how we feel about that. And we pay for the channels to watch footy, so support the provider that isn't stuffing adds into the match. As I say, I share your concern.

No I get that, no problem.

The point I was making about the extra time process is just a point of reference I don’t think it has ruined the game. Nonetheless, that very trivial dimension of the game has now been fully leveraged for revenue, so as sure as eggs are eggs, VAR will be monetarised in time too. What that looks like definitely has the potential to ruin the game, I guess we have to trust the likes of FIFA that they won’t (see below).

Anyone thinking otherwise is simple being naive in my view.

Hmmm, have to say I disagree about FIFA, albeit I guess their conduct in terms of corruption etc. is probably on a par with the IOC or other sporting institutions. Certainly how Qatar and Russia got their world cups feels odd, and given the indications of when that will take place in Qatar I think they could ruin football in Europe for a couple of seasons. I have no confidence they won’t be more destructive moving forward.

 

[Triggaaar]

The point I was making about the extra time process is just a point of reference I don’t think it has ruined the game. Nonetheless, that very trivial dimension of the game has now been fully leveraged for revenue, so as sure as eggs are eggs, VAR will be monetarised in time too.

Without doubt. As long as that doesn't impact on the game though, I think I'll be ok with it.

Hmmm, have to say I disagree about FIFA, albeit I guess their conduct in terms of corruption etc. is probably on a par with the IOC or other sporting institutions. Certainly how Qatar and Russia got their world cups feels odd, and given the indications of when that will take place in Qatar I think they could ruin football in Europe for a couple of seasons. I have no confidence they won’t be more destructive moving forward.

The awarding of the next two WCs is of course a joke. It doesn't matter too much for 2018, Russia is the sort of place that should have a WC anyway. Qatar is a crime against humanity more than football. So FIFA have ruined that WC. I don't think that'll affect the league footy we watch too much.

 

[cunning fergus]

Without doubt. As long as that doesn't impact on the game though, I think I'll be ok with it.
The awarding of the next two WCs is of course a joke. It doesn't matter too much for 2018, Russia is the sort of place that should have a WC anyway. Qatar is a crime against humanity more than football. So FIFA have ruined that WC. I don't think that'll affect the league footy we watch too much.

Good luck with watching league footy in December 2022.......

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/fifa-sets-start-date-2022-qatar-world-cup-150925132630823.html

 

[Postman Pat]

How about a very slight rule change stipulating that the player's feet must be onside at the time the ball is passed? This would provide a clearly defined point of reference that would allow some benefit for strikers in the most marginal calls (such as with the case of Mata's knee yesterday).

Just a thought. I'm not sure I care all that much.

The law is any body part that can legally score a goal has to be in an on-side position, so an hand/arm isn't included.

Given how far away the defender was when Mata put the ball in the net I can't believe he gained much of an advantage from his right knee being in an off-side position when the rest of him wasn't.

At least cricket has 'umpires call' when decisions are marginal, maybe football should do something similar. Unless there is >50% of the player offside then the decision stands?