[Albion] VAR decision on Estupiñán goal

[Bob!]

Brooks has been stood down from VAR duty this week after his mistake in disallowing our goal.

Referee John Brooks replaced for Liverpool vs Everton after VAR error which denied Brighton goal at Crystal Palace

John Brooks wrongly disallowed a Brighton goal from Pervis Estupinan against Crystal Palace as the VAR when the lines were drawn incorrectly; The official has been replaced as the VAR for Liverpool vs Everton on Monday Night Football and Arsenal vs Man City on Wednesday

www.skysports.com

So He'll be back on Saturday then I guess?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Brooks has been stood down from VAR duty this week after his mistake in disallowing our goal.

Referee John Brooks replaced for Liverpool vs Everton after VAR error which denied Brighton goal at Crystal Palace

John Brooks wrongly disallowed a Brighton goal from Pervis Estupinan against Crystal Palace as the VAR when the lines were drawn incorrectly; The official has been replaced as the VAR for Liverpool vs Everton on Monday Night Football and Arsenal vs Man City on Wednesday

www.skysports.com

Who was he down for?
This could be an advantage to teams we are competing with for the European places.

 

[Bob!]

Who was he down for?
This could be an advantage to teams we are competing with for the European places.

Liverpool, (Everton), Arsenal, Man City

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Stood down? He should be fired.

 

[Hotchilidog]

They are only binary if the technology (and the human interaction with it) is perfect. But as we saw at the weekend, it is not. Even without human error, there will be a technological margin of error as well (exact millisecond when ball is kicked, camera angle not exactly in line etc). The rules and VAR need to adjust to take these things into account

Exactly. Given that literally a mm off is considered offside the technology is not equipped to be 100% accurate to determine those margins with total confidence. A human will decide which frame of footage will be used, a human will then draw the lines (if they remember to do so) so subjectivity has been introduced into some thing that is meant to be objective.

This would be fine if a margin of error was factored in, but it is not. The authorities are resolutely defending the thinnest of margins as absolute black and white examples of egregious law breaking. The Harvey Barnes disallowed goal this weekend being a prime example, that decision was utter garbage, as it was in a 4-1 win it did not attract as much attention but it really is a good example of the joy stealing use of VAR to actively seek out an excuse to rule out a goal.

VAR is not being used to overturn poor decisions (in our case it overturned a good one!), it is being used to find the most minor reason to deny a goal. VAR is not being used for its intended purpose and a serious review of its use should be underway.

It goes without saying that Brooks and Mason should be fired for any confidence to be restored in this flawed system.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

So He'll be back on Saturday then I guess?

Weekend selections are due to be announced midday tomorrow. But Webb has called a meeting tomorrow as well so the announcement weekends officials might be delayed until after that meeting has taken place.

 

[Triggaaar]

Stood down? He should be fired.

People make mistakes. I'd be happy for each official who makes a mistake to be fired if we can be sure that they'll always be replaced by someone better, but I think we'd soon run out of experienced officials if we fired them all after one mistake. Missing a few games (ideally with a fine) to let them remember that what they're doing is important and needs concentration might be the best option we have.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

People make mistakes. I'd be happy for each official who makes a mistake to be fired if we can be sure that they'll always be replaced by someone better, but I think we'd soon run out of experienced officials if we fired them all after one mistake. Missing a few games (ideally with a fine) to let them remember that what they're doing is important and needs concentration might be the best option we have.

Agreed.

It's up to Webb to develop a system which improves the quality of refs.
Getting rid isn't necessarily the answer.
Although I hope he's man enough, to let those who are failing know, they have to improve to keep their job/status.

 

[Whitechapel]

An official making a mistake is one thing. Somebody sitting with a still imagine and all the time in the world still managing to draw a line to the wrong f*cking player is another. It’s just gross incompetence.

The Welbeck penalty v Leicester, The Fabinho tackle on Ferguson, The Estupinan goal against Palace. They’ve all been this calendar year and it’s not even Valentine’s Day yet. It’s a joke and at some point you’ve got to ask if it is actually just down to incompetence or if there’s something bigger going on.

 

[rippleman]

VAR was introduced to get rid of incorrect on-field decisions but it has just made matters much worse. If it isn't correcting on-field errors but instead is just adding to the incorrect decisions, it has to go.

Give me a lino who has a split second to make a decision and might get it wrong, to a VAR official who takes minutes to make a decision - and still gets it wrong. VAR is sucking the joy out of the game.

Unlike cricket and egg chasing, where the top officials have typically played at a high level, pro footballers aren't of the mind to "put back" into the sport that has brought them untold riches. That's a shame as former pros are the best officiators.

 

[jimhigham]

Brooks has been stood down from VAR duty this week after his mistake in disallowing our goal.

Referee John Brooks replaced for Liverpool vs Everton after VAR error which denied Brighton goal at Crystal Palace

John Brooks wrongly disallowed a Brighton goal from Pervis Estupinan against Crystal Palace as the VAR when the lines were drawn incorrectly; The official has been replaced as the VAR for Liverpool vs Everton on Monday Night Football and Arsenal vs Man City on Wednesday

www.skysports.com

I see this tucked away in that article...

"The PGMOL has not commented on whether Mason will be involved. He was not selected earlier this season in the round following another high-profile error he made, when he disallowed a goal for Newcastle in their home match against Crystal Palace on September 3."

They really are the jammiest bunch. Hoping that luck evaporates in an explosion of karma on March 16th. See you there.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

I see this tucked away in that article...

"The PGMOL has not commented on whether Mason will be involved. He was not selected earlier this season in the round following another high-profile error he made, when he disallowed a goal for Newcastle in their home match against Crystal Palace on September 3."

They really are the jammiest bunch. Hoping that luck evaporates in an explosion of karma on March 16th. See you there.

From that we must conclude all refs are secretly Palace fans. ****s

 

[Washboard Didgets]

That, and the camera angles at Selhurst Park are not fit for purpose when making tight offside calls.

All the decent stadiums have a camera in-line with the penalty box to show the view along the line of defence. At Selhurst they are making calls using a camera somewhere close to the halfway line, which definitely contributed to the VAR missing the last defender.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

People make mistakes. I'd be happy for each official who makes a mistake to be fired if we can be sure that they'll always be replaced by someone better, but I think we'd soon run out of experienced officials if we fired them all after one mistake. Missing a few games (ideally with a fine) to let them remember that what they're doing is important and needs concentration might be the best option we have.

It is gross incompetence and a decision like this which may cost a client millions would get you sacked in most other lines of work.

Also I'd question whether someone who is unable to do the very basics of their job is worth keeping, or whether it might lead to similar f*** ups in the future.

 

[Acker79]

The camera angle for this decision was off. But the camera is in a good position for other decisions. Have one in line with the penalty box it'll be great for decisions in the box, but not so good for decisions further upfield. What we need is...



100s of cameras all around the stadium

 

[Springal]

It is gross incompetence and a decision like this which may cost a client millions would get you sacked in most other lines of work.

Would it, I’m not sure. In my first job I had to send out a spare part to a Formula One team during a race weekend. I got 1 digit of a 16 figure part code wrong and the replacement we sent via courier was incorrect.

It caused a huge shit storm, put Jenson Buttons race at risk etc etc - I got spoken to and asked to pay more attention, but I didn’t even get a warning, lose my job, or made to record a video apology to anyone. Actually it changed a process it required 2 people to sign off the part before it was sent out, rather than an individual.

It’s not good enough and given there is the VAR & the VAR assistants do all miss it is baffling, but I’m not sure it’s a sackable offence - nor would mistakes in any other job generally be

 

[AmexRuislip]

Hopefully Mason will be sacked, after the ref meeting today.

 

[Audax]

Premier League needs to remove the culture of over-protecting the Refs (both on-field and VAR). There's legitimate protection that should be applied (and, IMO, too often isn't) and then there's creating a culture where the Refs feel like there's no need to maintain standards at the highest level because there's no consequences for regular stuff ups.

Few changes I'd make if I was Howard Webb:

1. Ensure that on-field Refs are protected by the laws of the game from being mobbed. Empower them to enforce those laws. Only the team captain should be allowed to approach the Ref.

2. Put in place an independent (genuinely independent) post-match review panel that analyses referee decisions from every match. That panel should have the power to rate the referees' performance and publish those ratings.

3. Do the same for VAR.

4. Separate the duties completely: use specialist VAR refs for VAR, and specialist on-field refs for on-field. And then never shall the two cross over.

5. Put an end to the policy that referee decisions on things like red cards and yellow cards that were adjudicated on during play cannot be re-adjudicated after the match. It's an absolute farce that players who escape red cards during play are then immune from the appropriate sanctions even after the escape is publicly admitted to as having been a mistake.

 

[medwayseagull reborn]

Premier League needs to remove the culture of over-protecting the Refs (both on-field and VAR). There's legitimate protection that should be applied (and, IMO, too often isn't) and then there's creating a culture where the Refs feel like there's no need to maintain standards at the highest level because there's no consequences for regular stuff ups.

Few changes I'd make if I was Howard Webb:

1. Ensure that on-field Refs are protected by the laws of the game from being mobbed. Empower them to enforce those laws. Only the team captain should be allowed to approach the Ref.

2. Put in place an independent (genuinely independent) post-match review panel that analyses referee decisions from every match. That panel should have the power to rate the referees' performance and publish those ratings.

3. Do the same for VAR.

4. Separate the duties completely: use specialist VAR refs for VAR, and specialist on-field refs for on-field. And then never shall the two cross over.

5. Put an end to the policy that referee decisions on things like red cards and yellow cards that were adjudicated on during play cannot be re-adjudicated after the match. It's an absolute farce that players who escape red cards during play are then immune from the appropriate sanctions even after the escape is publicly admitted to as having been a mistake.

6. Negotiate a bulk discount at Specsavers for all officials to have regular eye tests.

 

[dazzer6666]

Stood down? He should be fired.

Make him do a lap of the pitch at the Amex before the next game, wearing a sandwich board with 'I'm really very sorry' on it.