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[Brighton] Valley Gardens works



Official Old Man

Uckfield Seagull
Aug 27, 2011
9,095
Brighton
On Monday the town centre is going to be closed down for a few months (you thought a bloke throwing bricks was bad?) whilst the council upgrade Valley Gardens. Those unsure this is the area where the Lady Boys pitch their tent. I've had a hard look at the plans and, from what I can see, they are dropping four lanes of congested traffic down to two lanes to make it better.
All cars will use what is now the southbound A23 past St Peters and along Grand Parade. This will be two way. The existing northbound will become a bus lane. How on earth can turning four lanes into two make it better?
Traffic for the A27/A270 for Lewes will have to stay in the same lane as traffic queuing to get out on the A23. Has anyone from the council any idea at all about the real life?
https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/co...sport-and-road-safety/a-vision-valley-gardens
 




studio150

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
30,226
On the Border
On Monday the town centre is going to be closed down for a few months (you thought a bloke throwing bricks was bad?) whilst the council upgrade Valley Gardens. Those unsure this is the area where the Lady Boys pitch their tent. I've had a hard look at the plans and, from what I can see, they are dropping four lanes of congested traffic down to two lanes to make it better.
All cars will use what is now the southbound A23 past St Peters and along Grand Parade. This will be two way. The existing northbound will become a bus lane. How on earth can turning four lanes into two make it better?
Traffic for the A27/A270 for Lewes will have to stay in the same lane as traffic queuing to get out on the A23. Has anyone from the council any idea at all about the real life?
https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/co...sport-and-road-safety/a-vision-valley-gardens

You only have to look at the traffic looking to get out of town in the evening rush hour and summer weekends to know that the traffic moves slowly if at all. I would stand by for gridlock.
During the upgrade it will be interesting to see how if effects those that get the 25 or 28 out to the Amex for games, particularly night games.

What with the on going issues with the trains, and now this 'improvement' will anyone actually travel to Brighton unless they have no choice
 


mickybha

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2010
518
You only have to look at the traffic looking to get out of town in the evening rush hour and summer weekends to know that the traffic moves slowly if at all. I would stand by for gridlock.
During the upgrade it will be interesting to see how if effects those that get the 25 or 28 out to the Amex for games, particularly night games.

What with the on going issues with the trains, and now this 'improvement' will anyone actually travel to Brighton unless they have no choice

stand by for permanent gridlock because the two way traffic north and south bound is going to be permanently on the eastern side
 


Notters

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2003
24,889
Guiseley
When I was working on it there were still going to be four lanes but all on the east side. Is this no longer the case?
 






Super Steve Earle

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2009
8,928
North of Brighton
This will be a unretrievably, unmitigated disaster. Brighton will be gridlocked for ever in all directions once the Aquarium roundabout is ruined and the free flowing traffic is 'controlled'! Without that release valve and with clueless planners designing 'improvements', it will be a motorists nightmare, presumably that's the plan.
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,526
The arse end of Hangleton
It's an idiotic plan dreamt up by an idiotic Green council and enacted, after so called 'review', by an idiotic Labour council.
 


Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
Never had a problem on my bike, I guess this congestion won't change that in the slightest.
 




nickbrighton

Well-known member
Feb 19, 2016
2,129
Not once in the video does it mention improving traffic flow. God help the residents of Hannover, Rock Gardens etc as traffic will just use Queens Park Road and Rock Gardens to avoid the area.
 




Superseagull

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
2,123
Taking the northbound traffic down to ONE lane on the East side in places is bonkers. Clearly the plan is to make traffic flow so bad nobody will bother to drive into the area. How much money has been spent on stupid traffic improvements in the area over the last 20 years?
 




Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
Helpful comment. :ffsparr:
Thanks.

As it stands the whole area is a confusing mess of main roads, side roads, traffic lights and paths, which like it or not the quickest way through is on a bike. (now awaiting some nimrod to mention red light dodging).

But here's the bit that f**ktard slaves to cars don't understand.

Building safe, expansive, connected, paths, cycle and bus routes will reduce congestion.
Because nobody wants to be sat in their car watching time and money tick by, on their 2 mile journey, while seemingly everybody else is moving quicker.
 


Murray 17

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
2,163
Quite.

How narrowing North Street improves traffic flow, is beyond me. And narrowing The Drive for a barely used cycle lane.
Taking the northbound traffic down to ONE lane on the East side in places is bonkers. Clearly the plan is to make traffic flow so bad nobody will bother to drive into the area. How much money has been spent on stupid traffic improvements in the area over the last 20 years?
 


Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
Taking the northbound traffic down to ONE lane on the East side in places is bonkers. Clearly the plan is to make traffic flow so bad nobody will bother to drive into the area. How much money has been spent on stupid traffic improvements in the area over the last 20 years?

I have no idea, but assuming it's a large sum of cash, but you're probably right.
If this were done 20 years there wouldn't be a congestion issue now.

Quick fix, almost temporary measures, that'll benefit the short term needs of the sitting parish/council/parliament have no place in most schemes esp transportation.
I'm sure nobody wants to do anything about Worthing or Arundel because it'll not be to their own benefit, all the elected officials will get is the NIMBY grief.

The same applies here.

There's a situation slowly getting progressively worse, it's time (was years ago) for a 'f**k it let's think differently' approach, it's going to be a complete ballache for say 3 years, but in x years time they'll be threads on here saying 'anyone remember when Valley Gardens was this shite?'.
 




Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
20,740
Eastbourne
Thanks.

As it stands the whole area is a confusing mess of main roads, side roads, traffic lights and paths, which like it or not the quickest way through is on a bike. (now awaiting some nimrod to mention red light dodging).

But here's the bit that f**ktard slaves to cars don't understand.

Building safe, expansive, connected, paths, cycle and bus routes will reduce congestion.
Because nobody wants to be sat in their car watching time and money tick by, on their 2 mile journey, while seemingly everybody else is moving quicker.

No need to be aggressive. Making streets better for everyone is a good thing. It's just my perception that for a very long time, Brighton council has waged war against drivers. I hardly ever visit the place now, which is a great pity as it's not worth the effort. If the powers that be were serious about reducing traffic, buses and trains would be way way cheaper. It's all lip service as far as I'm concerned.
 


larus

Well-known member
Thanks.

As it stands the whole area is a confusing mess of main roads, side roads, traffic lights and paths, which like it or not the quickest way through is on a bike. (now awaiting some nimrod to mention red light dodging).

But here's the bit that f**ktard slaves to cars don't understand.

Building safe, expansive, connected, paths, cycle and bus routes will reduce congestion.
Because nobody wants to be sat in their car watching time and money tick by, on their 2 mile journey, while seemingly everybody else is moving quicker.

Or the other way to look at it is that is acts as a deterrent to people coming into the town. Now, you may think thus is a good thing.

For example, I live in Haywards Heath, but if I need to go shopping now I will drive to Bluewater and not go to Brighton as it takes as long to get into Brighton and get parked as it takes to get to Bluewater. Oh, and parking is free there too unlike the rip-off rates in Brighton. So, Brighton shopkeepers/cafes lose my trade and I will be far from the only one, which can’t be good for the local economy. The attitude of Brighton council appears to want to make life difficult/expenses for drivers.

Also, a mate of mine runs a small building company and they avoid (where possible) taking on projects in Brighton as it’s so expensive to do anything. Nowhere for tradesmen to park, permits, etc. All this means that the choices will be restricted for Brighton residents as some firms will decline the work. The ones who will do jobs will be able to charge more as less competition.
 


Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
No need to be aggressive. Making streets better for everyone is a good thing. It's just my perception that for a very long time, Brighton council has waged war against drivers. I hardly ever visit the place now, which is a great pity as it's not worth the effort. If the powers that be were serious about reducing traffic, buses and trains would be way way cheaper. It's all lip service as far as I'm concerned.

Unless I'm mistaken the Council has no say in the price of train and bus travel. (happy to stand corrected)

I don't see this as a 'war against drivers', now who's being aggressive?

I've driven that road more times than I've ridden it, I can't remember a time when it hasn't been shitehouse.
I'd be amazed if any driver on this thread says 'leave it as it is'.

So something has got to change.
More road isn't the answer, it's just not physically practical, and as said that'll just kick the problem down the road (pun intended) for a few years.

The only other answer is less cars.
You can't have less cars with no 'reward' for not using your car.

I see no reason why such a small scheme wouldn't work, if it's done properly.
My fear would be that none of the thinking is joined up, so your bus takes 90% off it's journey time then turns left and is sat in yet more traffic. That appears to be the English way.
 


Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
Or the other way to look at it is that is acts as a deterrent to people coming into the town. Now, you may think thus is a good thing.

For example, I live in Haywards Heath, but if I need to go shopping now I will drive to Bluewater and not go to Brighton as it takes as long to get into Brighton and get parked as it takes to get to Bluewater. Oh, and parking is free there too unlike the rip-off rates in Brighton. So, Brighton shopkeepers/cafes lose my trade and I will be far from the only one, which can’t be good for the local economy. The attitude of Brighton council appears to want to make life difficult/expenses for drivers.

Also, a mate of mine runs a small building company and they avoid (where possible) taking on projects in Brighton as it’s so expensive to do anything. Nowhere for tradesmen to park, permits, etc. All this means that the choices will be restricted for Brighton residents as some firms will decline the work. The ones who will do jobs will be able to charge more as less competition.

I totally agree.
My last trip to Brighton by car was horrible, and I can't think of many that are enjoyable, so something has to give.

The slightly better experience was by train, but that isn't really welcoming either.
 




Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
20,740
Eastbourne
Unless I'm mistaken the Council has no say in the price of train and bus travel. (happy to stand corrected)

I don't see this as a 'war against drivers', now who's being aggressive?

I've driven that road more times than I've ridden it, I can't remember a time when it hasn't been shitehouse.
I'd be amazed if any driver on this thread says 'leave it as it is'.

So something has got to change.
More road isn't the answer, it's just not physically practical, and as said that'll just kick the problem down the road (pun intended) for a few years.

The only other answer is less cars.
You can't have less cars with no 'reward' for not using your car.

I see no reason why such a small scheme wouldn't work, if it's done properly.
My fear would be that none of the thinking is joined up, so your bus takes 90% off it's journey time then turns left and is sat in yet more traffic. That appears to be the English way.

I largely agree with you. I am advocating a government initiative, not a locally run scheme, for public transport. Chances of that happening, virtually nil. Many like me would use Public Transport more often if it were in any way more affordable and more frequent. The other day, my wife wanted to go to another part of Eastbourne. Thankfully Eastbourne hasn't the traffic of Brighton, she wanted to take a bus. The journey would have taken an hour and a half. This was a 2 to 4 mile trip or something.The walking time given by google was less than the bus time due to infrequent, non-connecting services. There should be massive investment in public transport, I would suggest it should be free or almost free.
 


goldstone

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 5, 2003
7,177
It seems like only a few years ago that they completed the last "improvement" in that area with the addition of the bus lanes.
 


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