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[Albion] Valentín Barco **Season Loan To Sevilla 23/08/24**



brighton_tom

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2008
5,511
I agree with you completely, yet the club haven’t made this position a priority (as far as we know)

Three possibilities:

1. RDZ is happy with his options (even if we’re nervous)

2. The club is quietly working away on something.

3. We had a couple of youth players make cameos last season, could they be more involved this season?

No idea which option is correct, or even if there’s an option 4, but in the club we trust, even if in this case it’s with a bit of trepidation.
Option 4... RDZ and the club recognise this is an area for improvement, and would love to get a Pervis style right back in, but all the while you have Lamptey/Veltman/Milner/Gross who can play there it remains a low priority as another player there would start to bloat the squad. Maybe it Lamptey moved on we would make moves for someone, but possibly there hasnt been much interest in him?
 




Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
13,435
Central Borneo / the Lizard
No.

RDZ does not play with a symmetrical team.

The LB position is in effect, a box-to-box winger. The RB position is as a false right back. The player is required to tuck in further up the pitch and play right midfield when we are in possession (80% of the time against West Ham). This is why Veltman and Lamptey find it tough to get minutes.

If you want an Estupińan style right back, you are essentially asking RDZ to change his style and tactics. I suppose that if we had a left footed playmaker (Baleba perhaps) then he could switch to a false LB and the RB would become the box to box winger?
Yeah, obviously this. We have a perfectly good RB in Veltman, and a good, albeit oft-injured right wingback in Lamptey. But RDZ has continuously and persistently used midfielders there - Gross / Caicedo / Milner - which is a clear demonstration that that is the kind of player that he wants in his system.
 


Hotchilidog

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2009
9,120
No.

RDZ does not play with a symmetrical team.

The LB position is in effect, a box-to-box winger. The RB position is as a false right back. The player is required to tuck in further up the pitch and play right midfield when we are in possession (80% of the time against West Ham). This is why Veltman and Lamptey find it tough to get minutes.

If you want an Estupińan style right back, you are essentially asking RDZ to change his style and tactics. I suppose that if we had a left footed playmaker (Baleba perhaps) then he could switch to a false LB and the RB would become the box to box winger?
That would explain his indifference to the position. Not going to lie I am still concerned about how vulnerable we can look on the right, but given the quality of football we are enjoying we'll have to continue to ride that rollercoaster.
 


Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
8,622
No.

RDZ does not play with a symmetrical team.

The LB position is in effect, a box-to-box winger. The RB position is as a false right back. The player is required to tuck in further up the pitch and play right midfield when we are in possession (80% of the time against West Ham). This is why Veltman and Lamptey find it tough to get minutes.

If you want an Estupińan style right back, you are essentially asking RDZ to change his style and tactics. I suppose that if we had a left footed playmaker (Baleba perhaps) then he could switch to a false LB and the RB would become the box to box winger?
Well this is what we've seen on the pitch yes. But I wonder where the causal relationship is here. If he had a marauding right back, "good on the ball and getting up and down making tackles and crosses" type player would he continue to use Milner at right back? I'm less sure than you.

It's quite possible he could have a more symmetrical side with a "one full back goes and one stays" policy, if he had the player he thought could do that job.

But i'm guessing
 


beefypigeon

Well-known member
Aug 14, 2008
972
No.

RDZ does not play with a symmetrical team.

The LB position is in effect, a box-to-box winger. The RB position is as a false right back. The player is required to tuck in further up the pitch and play right midfield when we are in possession (80% of the time against West Ham). This is why Veltman and Lamptey find it tough to get minutes.

If you want an Estupińan style right back, you are essentially asking RDZ to change his style and tactics. I suppose that if we had a left footed playmaker (Baleba perhaps) then he could switch to a false LB and the RB would become the box to box winger?
Having a Pervis-style right back would make us far more dynamic and harder to defend against/predict. At the moment everything comes down the left-hand side, it is our main threat. If a team nullifies this threat our options are significantly reduced. If we also had a Pervis on the right, then our attacking options skyrocket. When the RB goes, Pervis stays back, and visa-versa.
 






Beanstalk

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2017
3,029
London
No.

RDZ does not play with a symmetrical team.

The LB position is in effect, a box-to-box winger. The RB position is as a false right back. The player is required to tuck in further up the pitch and play right midfield when we are in possession (80% of the time against West Ham). This is why Veltman and Lamptey find it tough to get minutes.

If you want an Estupińan style right back, you are essentially asking RDZ to change his style and tactics. I suppose that if we had a left footed playmaker (Baleba perhaps) then he could switch to a false LB and the RB would become the box to box winger?
This is a really good point and probably the best interpretation of how we set up in this thread.

Maybe if Lamptey gets up to full fitness then the LB rotation option is Tariq as an inverted left full back, with Veltman, Milner and Gross as the RB options. We lined up like this against Arsenal in the League Cup last year and it worked at treat.
 


Blue3

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2014
5,832
Lancing
I agree with you completely, yet the club haven’t made this position a priority (as far as we know)

Three possibilities:

1. RDZ is happy with his options (even if we’re nervous)

2. The club is quietly working away on something.

3. We had a couple of youth players make cameos last season, could they be more involved this season?

No idea which option is correct, or even if there’s an option 4, but in the club we trust, even if in this case it’s with a bit of trepidation.
I cannot understand why Veltman is not being selected unless he’s still carrying an injury
 








Gabbiano

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2017
1,727
Spank the Manc
Someone has already mentioned it a few posts up. RDZ doesn't want to play with a conventional right back. So we don't really need many of them.
Just because we only play one traditional full back at any given time doesn’t mean we wouldn’t benefit by having the option to switch that play between the left and right side. Always playing down the left with Pervis is predictable.

If Lamptey were fit, he could provide that role on the right, but conversely we also don’t have a more defensive/“tuck in to midfield” full back on the left side to complement this option (unless that also means Milner?).
 




Justice

Dangerous Idiot
Jun 21, 2012
20,653
Born In Shoreham
Someone has already mentioned it a few posts up. RDZ doesn't want to play with a conventional right back. So we don't really need many of them.
Although that’s not correct I think it was against Liverpool last season Lamptey played and we were superb. When Lamptey is ready he will play.
 


Shopes

Active member
Jan 3, 2018
184
How did De Zerbi's Shakhtar Donetsk team play with their wing-backs? He previously said that was the team closest to his ideal style of play.
 


Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
14,881
Almería
How did De Zerbi's Shakhtar Donetsk team play with their wing-backs? He previously said that was the team closest to his ideal style of play.

He's always played with a back 4 as far as I know.

If you read about his Sassuolo and Shakhtar teams, the style seems very similar to how we play. One potential difference is that both fullbacks used to get forward. Perhaps, a more conservative defender on one side is him trying to be less open at the back.

 




Sarisbury Seagull

Solly March Fan Club
NSC Patron
Nov 22, 2007
14,998
Sarisbury Green, Southampton
He's always played with a back 4 as far as I know.

If you read about his Sassuolo and Shakhtar teams, the style seems very similar to how we play. One potential difference is that both fullbacks used to get forward. Perhaps, a more conservative defender on one side is him trying to be less open at the back.

And yet time and time again we were caught out on Saturday with only two men at the back as both full backs were further forward and wide like with Sassuolo and Shakhtar, the RB was not conservative and covering in the middle.

Have a look at Milner's heat map from Saturday - he was pretty much a right winger. Pervis did the same meaning Webster and Dunk were badly exposed every time West Ham broke which is why I have a some sympathy for them. The difference was Pervis had the full back mentality and pace to get back and cover which Milner didn't which was partly why Webster had such a nightmare and our right hand side was such a weakness.

To me it's an absolute no brainer if he wants to play that way with both full backs pushing on, that we need a specialist RB with some pace able to get back and cover like Pervis does regularly.
 
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Couldn't Be Hyypia

We've come a long long way together
NSC Patron
Nov 12, 2006
16,712
Near Dorchester, Dorset
And yet time and time again we were caught out on Saturday with only two men at the back as both full backs were further forward and wide like with Sassuolo and Shakhtar, the RB was not conservative and covering in the middle.

To me it's an absolute no brainer if he wants to play that way with both full backs pushing on, that we need a specialist RB with some pace able to get back and cover like Pervis does regularly.
Or we have someone with the unusual taelnt of a Caicedo who could be part of the pivot and still be able to tackle back to cover for the high-pressing full backs.
 


Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
13,435
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Having a Pervis-style right back would make us far more dynamic and harder to defend against/predict. At the moment everything comes down the left-hand side, it is our main threat. If a team nullifies this threat our options are significantly reduced. If we also had a Pervis on the right, then our attacking options skyrocket. When the RB goes, Pervis stays back, and visa-versa.
We frequently attack down the right, we just attack differently down the right, less direct and more triangles compared to the left. But if a team focuses on defending the left we will certainly hurt them from the right.
 


Reinelt12

Sick Note
Nov 8, 2006
1,314
Lichfield, United Kingdom
Has anyone considered that Baleba might end up being the RB in the system we play - much like Caicedo was in the latter stages of last season? He has the pace, can get box to box, can defend and also will tuck into the middle seamlessly?
 




Sarisbury Seagull

Solly March Fan Club
NSC Patron
Nov 22, 2007
14,998
Sarisbury Green, Southampton
No.

RDZ does not play with a symmetrical team.

The LB position is in effect, a box-to-box winger. The RB position is as a false right back. The player is required to tuck in further up the pitch and play right midfield when we are in possession (80% of the time against West Ham). This is why Veltman and Lamptey find it tough to get minutes.

If you want an Estupińan style right back, you are essentially asking RDZ to change his style and tactics. I suppose that if we had a left footed playmaker (Baleba perhaps) then he could switch to a false LB and the RB would become the box to box winger?
If you have a look at their heat maps from Saturday, they are both high and wide. In fact, Pervis came centrally more than Milner. In the previous two games, Milner also stayed wide with Pervis tucking in slightly more than Milner but again, generally both staying wide. The system RDZ wants to play is crying out for another Pervis on the right IMO and a Caicedo type, more physical/defensive minded and energetic CM to drop in which we hopefully have now in Baleba.
 


um bongo molongo

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2004
3,052
Battersea
Boca made it through the Copa Libertadores last night on pens which is probably not good news for getting this done (if there was ever a chance). At least in this window
 


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