[NSC] Vaccine passport required to enter Amex

[Swansman]

The number of deaths and hospitalisations relative to the number of infections has been massively reduced - broadly, infection numbers are at a level now similar to, say, December 2020 but at that points deaths were 500+ per day, not 100 or so per day we are seeing now.

There is also a lot more people being tested and, because of that, difficult to tell whether there are more or less infections. But if we're comparing summer and winter (which we shouldnt based on last years events), 4% of the tests were positive on September 1 with 207 deaths, with 12% being positive on December 31 when there were 613 deaths. Massively reduced.. well.

I'd love a normal winter but I'll wait another few months before I put my "Covid vaccine saved the world" poster on the wall.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

There is also a lot more people being tested and, because of that, difficult to tell whether there are more or less infections. But if we're comparing summer and winter (which we shouldnt based on last years events), 4% of the tests were positive on September 1 with 207 deaths, with 12% being positive on December 31 when there were 613 deaths. Massively reduced.. well.

I'd love a normal winter but I'll wait another few months before I put my "Covid vaccine saved the world" poster on the wall.

Figures from Sweden presumably ?

 

[A1X]

"Boo it's terrible that they're enforcing rules that say people must wear a seatbelt to travel in a car, they know that seatbelts don't make it less likely you'll have a crash right?"

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I've been taking a keen interest in these threads, because I will be one of those affected by the introduction of Covid passports. Since I was a child, I have suffered from extreme trypanophobia (morbid fear of needles), to the extent that I avoided my BCG at school, have avoided visiting the dentist if needles are involved, walked out of surgeries where blood tests were required (even though I suffered a heart attack, a few years ago), hell, I cannot even watch injections being given to someone on TV or films.
The phobia is real, and I'm fully aware that they don't 'hurt' - it's that I cannot handle someone approaching me with a needle - just the thought of it is, well....I just can't.
I have tried many therapies, happy pills, being drunk, being stoned, etc. over the years, but to no avail.
All that said, as much as it's going to exclude me from many things in the near future, and I don't like that it will, I fully accept that that's the way it is, until such times as the ongoing trials with a nasal spray/pill form of the vaccine is available to me and others that have the same problem.
I am very much pro-vaccine, to be clear, I simply have an issue with the way it is administered.
There are so many gigs I have lined-up, which were postponed from last year, and it seems likely that I will be unable to attend most (if not all) of them.

My sympathies.

Mrs T is up there (not as bad as you), and has been known to punch doctors rather than receive an injection. She has managed to get two covid jabs though, thanks to an amazing nurse. Not looking and not realising when it was happening did the trick. It will be pandemonium when the next jab is required but I'm optimistic she'll get through it. If there happens to be a daddylonglegs flying about in the surgery when she turns up however, people will be punched.

And, total respect for your stance

 

[Swansman]

Fairly obviously caused by the delta variant having an R , 2 to 3 times greater and possibly twice as likely to result in hospitalisations.

Without vaccines we'd be in truly deep s***

Maybe.

Or maybe the virus would have mutated in a different, less aggressive manner if there were no resistance such as vaccines. The world never had a vaccine against any coronavirus before. If it was all figured out you wouldnt find researchers saying everywhere that there are a lot of unknowns and uncertainties regarding this virus and that should also mean unknowns and uncertainties whether this vaccine can be vaccinated away.

I think its harmful to go on any real or psychological victory parades before this winter is over, because of things go wrong - how do you cope with the disappointment?

 

[Swansman]

Figures from Sweden presumably ?

No, UK.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There is also a lot more people being tested and, because of that, difficult to tell whether there are more or less infections. But if we're comparing summer and winter (which we shouldnt based on last years events), 4% of the tests were positive on September 1 with 207 deaths, with 12% being positive on December 31 when there were 613 deaths. Massively reduced.. well.

I'd love a normal winter but I'll wait another few months before I put my "Covid vaccine saved the world" poster on the wall.

Number of infections is not the best index of jeopardy. Look at hospitalizations. In the UK they are less than a quarter of what they were last winter. Look at excess deaths. They are 5% of what the were last winter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

We have had 3 covid waves. The current wave has much less jeopardy. Vaccination is the best explanation. However, I won't be mingling with the hot breath of the unvaccinated any time soon. Vaccine passports will alow me to watch the Albion, though. And maybe see some live music. We shall see.

 

[A1X]

Fairly obviously caused by the delta variant having an R , 2 to 3 times greater and possibly twice as likely to result in hospitalisations.

Without vaccines we'd be in truly deep s***

As evidenced by what happened in India when it first took off over there and what is happening in Mississippi right now

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Sick and tired of nobs on the radio saying 'being double vaccinated doesn't prevent you getting covid so therefore there is no point making people show vaccine passports' See post by [MENTION=35904]A1X[/MENTION] above (which is bang on).

I love the human ability to twist facts, particularly data on probabilities, to suit their agenda. Whether it be drink driving, the terrorist threat from the Asian-looking bloke who runs the corner shop, 5G . . . . .

I hate being told what to do, but after doing a few risk benefit assessments it is clear that it is far better to have rules, even arbitrary ones, than allowing the nation to indulge in a libertarian free-for-all, lager for breakfast and stark bollock naked on the grass verge by lunchtime, rutting the neighbour up the bottom.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Maybe.

Or maybe the virus would have mutated in a different, less aggressive manner if there were no resistance such as vaccines. The world never had a vaccine against any coronavirus before. If it was all figured out you wouldnt find researchers saying everywhere that there are a lot of unknowns and uncertainties regarding this virus and that should also mean unknowns and uncertainties whether this vaccine can be vaccinated away.

I think its harmful to go on any real or psychological victory parades before this winter is over, because of things go wrong - how do you cope with the disappointment?

a) delta likely mutated in India at a time very few were jabbed
b) Yeh, there's been coronaviruses before, back through the centuries. They would have probably caused a high number of untimely deaths, which is less tolerated now we know they can be prevented
c) agree this winter is likely to be s***. Much much worse without the vaccines though

 

[jordanseagull]

"Boo it's terrible that they're enforcing rules that say people must wear a seatbelt to travel in a car, they know that seatbelts don't make it less likely you'll have a crash right?"

This analogy only works to explain the benefits of having the vaccine, not of vaccine passports. The point of passports is to protect others - whether or not you wear a seatbelt does not protect others, only yourself.

 

[studio150]

This analogy only works to explain the benefits of having the vaccine, not of vaccine passports. The point of passports is to protect others - whether or not you wear a seatbelt does not protect others, only yourself.

Not true, if you are not wearing a seat belt and others are, you can easily push other passengers into windows or other parts of the cars causing them to suffer more severe injuries while you crash about following a collision.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

This analogy only works to explain the benefits of having the vaccine, not of vaccine passports. The point of passports is to protect others - whether or not you wear a seatbelt does not protect others, only yourself.

Sorry you're wrong it does save others. By bringing in the law, parents were made to put their kids in seat belts and by the fact those belts were not suitable for the young kiddy seats were introduced. Also unbelted passengers, including kids often killed others by flying about in the confines of a car when in an accident

 

[Swansman]

Number of infections is not the best index of jeopardy. Look at hospitalizations. In the UK they are less than a quarter of what they were last winter. Look at excess deaths. They are 5% of what the were last winter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

We have had 3 covid waves. The current wave has much less jeopardy. Vaccination is the best explanation. However, I won't be mingling with the hot breath of the unvaccinated any time soon. Vaccine passports will alow me to watch the Albion, though. And maybe see some live music. We shall see.

Last winter, last winter. Why not compare something more apple for apple, this summer vs last summer?

 

[jordanseagull]

Sorry you're wrong it does save others. By bringing in the law, parents were made to put their kids in seat belts and by the fact those belts were not suitable for the young kiddy seats were introduced. Also unbelted passengers, including kids often killed others by flying about in the confines of a car when in an accident

And if I’m driving alone?

For the analogy to work it has to be broadly applicable, given the passport itself is proposed as a broad solution at all mass events.

In fairness, I should have clarified I was thinking in terms of driving alone.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

And if I’m driving alone?

For the analogy to work it has to be broadly applicable, given the passport itself is proposed as a broad solution at all mass events.

In fairness, I should have clarified I was thinking in terms of driving alone.

Ok, think you're trying a bit too hard now, so I comeback with, no seatbelt you head through the windscreen, badly injured, helicopter medics attend to scoop you up, meanwhile someone else is in need of said helicopter but your negligence means they can't attend and so a person who could have been saved dies due to delay.

You selfish git

 

[Guinness Boy]

Last winter, last winter. Why not compare something more apple for apple, this summer vs last summer?

Because you're making two mistakes (again)

1) You are not comparing apples. There were severe social restrictions last summer including limits on gatherings in and outdoors and absolutely no fans at "Project restart". When the government relaxed restaurant rules via eat out to help out then cases, deaths and hospitalisations shot up.
2) You are making the mistake that Covid is seasonal. It isn't.

 

[beorhthelm]

Because you're making two mistakes (again)

1) You are not comparing apples. There were severe social restrictions last summer including limits on gatherings in and outdoors and absolutely no fans at "Project restart". When the government relaxed restaurant rules via eat out to help out then cases, deaths and hospitalisations shot up.
2) You are making the mistake that Covid is seasonal. It isn't.

to correct the correction, rates jumped up with going back to school. the % positive from testing actually went down in Aug 2020, when the tests ramped up.

 

[Guinness Boy]

to correct the correction, rates jumped up with going back to school. the % positive from testing actually went down in Aug 2020, when the tests ramped up.

Going back to school happened at the end of Eat Out to Help Out. You haven't got a control for that correction.

 

[Clive Walker]

.. ok thats fine. I think it's worthy of a debate.

I disagree with showing my medical status, but I'm cool with you being in favour.

I just object to the state or club getting involved, as I've said I'm a natural liberaterian.

I'm not thick or selfish which I'm constantly being accused of, but just weary of the way the country is heading in my opinion

I’m curious. What issue do you have with showing your medical status? It will either show your vaccinated or not. Nothing more sinister or sensitive than that!