Use By Dates

[Brovion]

We absolutely hate food waste and very, very rarely throw anything away (I'm still using a bottle of burger sauce that expired in June 2015). We use smell and taste rather than labels, and if we think things might be a bit dodgy we just cook them for longer.

 

[cardboard]

I've bought chicken, that when unwrapped, smells of rotten eggs, even before the use by date.

That is fine, i had that and went back to the butchers, its the packaging. The chicken was perfectly fine and they were right.

 

[Audax]

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/abo...-controversies/plastic-bottles-and-cling-film

Just going to post this Cancer Research link again for anyone else that's going to claim that plastic water bottles are harmful to health.

That's a good article, thanks for sharing.

Couple of things to note: My post doesn't contain any claims that plastic water bottles are harmful to health. Just that the only justifiable reason for having them is related to chemical release from the bottles. Keep in mind here, as well, that while the current body of scientific evidence suggestions the chemicals are safe, there's a lot of other chemicals that had been declared safe at given levels and were then subsequently found to be unsafe as new research became available. Whether proven to be a health problem or not, there can be chemical release, and this possible risk increases the longer the water is in the bottle.

I personally don't even look at the date on bottled water, because I believe it's irrelevant and I'm happy to trust the science. But the regulatory bodies, and the food/drink companies, are going to err on the side of extreme caution given the way the world has gone with regards litigation. If they *don't* have a date on there, and the science subsequently *does* find there's a health risk once the chemical levels build up sufficiently, then someone is bound to open a case. SO they stick a date on and cover their posteriors, just in case.

 

[Albion my Albion]

I personally don't even look at the date on bottled water, because I believe it's irrelevant and I'm happy to trust the science. But the regulatory bodies, and the food/drink companies, are going to err on the side of extreme caution given the way the world has gone with regards litigation. If they *don't* have a date on there, and the science subsequently *does* find there's a health risk once the chemical levels build up sufficiently, then someone is bound to open a case. SO they stick a date on and cover their posteriors, just in case.

That sounds like a very American response.

 

[beorhthelm]

Couple of things to note: My post doesn't contain any claims that plastic water bottles are harmful to health. Just that the only justifiable reason for having them is related to chemical release from the bottles. Keep in mind here, as well, that while the current body of scientific evidence suggestions the chemicals are safe, there's a lot of other chemicals that had been declared safe at given levels and were then subsequently found to be unsafe as new research became available. Whether proven to be a health problem or not, there can be chemical release, and this possible risk increases the longer the water is in the bottle.

more significantly is how it is kept. that seems to be ignored especially with subject of bottles, as they and contents are affected by their environment especially direct sunlight.

 

[Alba Badger]

Apart from the Stilton repeating on me I am glad to report no adverse effects from last nights out of date pie!

 

[golddene]

My rules, best before is ok after, use by have a look first, on the day if not eating it then freeze the f**ker!

 

[Brok]

Yup, it's heavily regulated. In some cases to the point of absurdity. There's plenty of cheeses out there that, when properly served, aren't even ready to eat until they're passed the Best Before date. Such as stilton (which can easily be recognised as being "not safe to eat" with a smell test. Smells of ammonia? Don't eat it).




My better half had a dose of salmonella when she was younger. It put her in hospital; she was so ill for so long that she had to re-learn how to walk after, partly because it triggered a form of reactive arthritis that she's had to (and will always have to) live with ever since (fortunately it doesn't flare up that often). Further, she's been told that if she ever gets (or even suspects she's got) salmonella poisoning ever again to get to a hospital ASAP as the reaction she has to it attacks the eyes and she could lose her sight as a result.

So ... what's the worst that can happen? Quite a lot that immodium can't fix, actually.




While I agree that a Use by on water is a bit odd (!), there's actually some sense to it. The plastic used to make the bottles can leach chemicals into the water, and it's that process that the use by date is addressing. The water itself would be fine if it was in bottle that didn't leach chemicals.





Spot on. As noted above, some foods I won't even touch until the best before date has already passed. A good stilton needs time to mature properly.







With cooked food the key is in how you treat the food after cooking. Many ingredients (especially rice, but not limited to rice - lots of other foods like cereals [porridge] and pasta have the same issue) can potentially have bacterial spores present. The spores themselves are absolutely harmless, but when you cook the food the spores get activated and you then get bacterial growth in the food. Cooking temperatures *do not* guarantee killing the bacteria. The key is in controlling temperatures: high enough temperature inhibits bacterial population growth, as does low enough temperature (note - it doesn't stop it, unless you freeze the food or take it to such high temp it'd be inedible anyway).

So, once you stop cooking your meal and the temperature starts to drop you start to get bacterial growth. As the population grows, the bacteria produce toxins that get left in the food. The longer the food is left sitting in a temperature range that allows rapid bacterial growth, the more toxic the food gets. General guidance is to make sure you get a cooked meal into the fridge within 2 hours of cooking. With rice especially you've got a potential double-whammy food poisoning effect: you get immediate poisoning from the toxins, and then you can also get a bacterial infection in your gut that then feeds on anything you eat and produces even more toxin in your digestive system.

One thing that's important to note: reheating at high temperature can kill any bacteria present, but it does nothing to the toxins already deposited in the food.

Also, if you're worried about bacteria count on fresh chicken: stick it in your home freezer. Home freezing is slow enough that the water present in bacteria can form crystals and kill the majority of any bacteria present (note that industrial flash freezing doesn't kill the bacteria anywhere near as effectively). Your chicken will then, once thawed for cooking, have a much lower bacteria count for the post-cooking population explosion to start from. Buys you a bit more time to fridge/freeze the cooked food.

There's some other key do's and don't's:

- Mince meat, and anything made from it, should always be cooked through. No pink. Why? Because the mincing process spreads any bacteria present through the meat. Steaks etc are fine to have rare because you cook the outside and that inhibits bacterial growth.
- Melons - they will usually have bacteria on the outside surface. Once you slice into them, you're on a timer. Melons aren't acidic enough to prevent bacterial growth, so once the knife helps transport some bacteria into the fruit from the rind you start to get population growth. So once slice, into the fridge they go and eat within a few days.


Needless to say, given what I said above re: my wife, we're particularly careful in our house. I'll generally happily eat something that's a day or two past "Use By" if it passes a visual and nasal test (unless the first mouthful tastes odd), but the wife won't. She also insists on UK-only chicken / eggs, because in the UK all chickens get salmonella vaccinated (which isn't true throughout the EU).

Blimey.

 

[Mr Putdown]

She also insists on UK-only chicken / eggs, because in the UK all chickens get salmonella vaccinated (which isn't true throughout the EU).

Be careful as certainly not all UK chickens that are vaccinated. I know for a fact that the chicken my family eat isn't as I know the producer.

Initially, UK legislation required compulsory slaughter of poultry infected with Salmonella. While that requirement has been revoked, mass vaccination of poultry has continued by those breeders subscribing to the Lion Quality Code of Practice and using the Lion Mark on eggs. The code of practice requires mandatory vaccination of all young hens destined to lay Lion eggs against Salmonella, as well as traceability of hens, eggs and feed, a best-before date stamped on shells and hygiene controls at packing stations. Lion eggs now account for around 85 percent of the UK’s total market.

 

[Audax]

That sounds like a very American response.

Blimey, I feel dirty now. But yes, it's something that originated in the US as they're the ones who led the charge on litigation being "the answer to everything".




On another note, I was rather amused on my drive home around the M25 last night to hear an advert on the radio that laid out the difference between Best Before and Use By. Their advice? Don't trust look/smell, if it's past the Use By bin it. But a Best Before only tells you that the product will be better before that date, with longer storage resulting in possible deterioration in quality but no adverse health effects.

 

[Spicy]

I would never eat chicken past its sell by date but other stuff a couple of days is fine and exceptionally if it smells ok, bound to be ok.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Smell always, had a prawn cocktail yesterday, best before yesterday, opened it and it stunk, straight in bin...... plenty of stuff is just fine like breads, sauces etc, meat/fish always a good sniff first.

There's a difference between best before and use by dates. Bread and fruit and vegetables and the like would be best before. Anything chilled would be use by.

I work part-time for Waitrose and have done the training. If any retailer is found to have "use by" stuff on sale past its date, they would be open to prosecution.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

On another note, I was rather amused on my drive home around the M25 last night to hear an advert on the radio that laid out the difference between Best Before and Use By. Their advice? Don't trust look/smell, if it's past the Use By bin it. But a Best Before only tells you that the product will be better before that date, with longer storage resulting in possible deterioration in quality but no adverse health effects.

Why amused? That's about right.

 

[Official Old Man]

Lunchtime I had a nice tiger loaf sandwich with corned beef. A thick layer of real ale chutney was spread over the top of the beef. Yummy.
Told the Wife what I was eating and she said we had no chutney. I went back and pulled out this jar from the fridge "Yes we have, look".
You know what's coming, use by May 2014
I'm still alive at the moment!